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Reciprocating Mass

rino's Avatar Picture rino – December 09, 2007 10:14AM Reply Quote
As started by Binky in land of old ...

A place to discuss your wheels!

"Use your wheels, that is what they are for." - Hawkwind

ddt – April 16, 2008 10:20AM Reply Quote
that's an interesting idea, bill, but at least for cars it would unrealistically favor vehicles based on how large they were. it's anecdotal, not data, but i usually see giant SUVs with a single person in them, and almost never filled to capacity. plus, the more people in it, the worse the mileage.


El Jeffe – April 16, 2008 11:44AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
you fell right into my trap.


Regardless, more data (massaging) is better than less and darned near ZERO cost.

What a journey.

stan adams – April 16, 2008 05:17PM Reply Quote
Will dynamic efficiency is mostly due to aerodynamics where you get that "square of speed" stuff, static loading is nowhere near as big a deal.Even "the big rigs" have a minor difference: http://www.mountain-plains.org/pubs/html/mpc-03-152/pg8.php

I used to have my physics non-honors kids do calculations like this. Somehow I wonder if there are kids that have now grown up and tell their wife they'd be better off filling a semi with all their kids and their neighbors and taking a group vacation together than driving separate cars...

Simon – April 16, 2008 08:01PM Reply Quote
I think you could only include passengers capable of driving a separate vehicle in that calculation because someone who can't drive a vehicle (age, disability, no licence etc). They would either be staying home or taking public transport if they weren't driven in someone else's vehicle.

stan adams – April 16, 2008 08:51PM Reply Quote
You were the kind of kid that made me leave :)

SoupIsGood Food – April 24, 2008 09:37PM Reply Quote
So! Subaru, Suzuki and Honda all have deals going on right now, with a low APR and 2k cashback on 2008 Forresters, and zero-percent finance for 60 months for Elements and SX4's.

While my Dodge has been rock-solid reliable mechanically, the weather sealing and underbody has been disintegrating. The rear foot wells have a half inch of water in them whenever it rains, and the trunk is worse. Last go 'round for me with domestic brands, thankyew.

The SX4 is cheep, but resale value is non-existant, and I'll be underwater the whole way through the loan, no interest or not. The Subaru is the best vehicle, a SUV with 8" of clearance and a 2500lb tow rating that handles like a sportscar (I know because I test-drove an Acura TSX and a Scion TC) - but the Honda is the most reliable and the most comfortable and has an unreal resale value - near MSRP even four years out.

They all get around the same mileage.

Or, I could try to figure out how to stop the leaks on the old Neon, and save up some scratch for a house.

Decisions, decisions.

~ Soop

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/24/2008 09:38PM by SoupIsGood Food.

El Jeffe – April 25, 2008 04:32AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
MINI for resale value

ghidorah – April 25, 2008 08:08PM Reply Quote
Raise taxes on cavemen. --jw

ghidorah – April 25, 2008 08:28PM Reply Quote
Raise taxes on cavemen. --jw

Jeff Cooper – April 28, 2008 10:08AM Reply Quote
I've been driving Honda products since 1983 ('83 Civic, '89 Acura Integra, '98 CR-V, '05 Acura TSX), and my wife has been driving Hondas since 1999 ('99 Accord, '04 CR-V). In all that time, I can think of maybe two repairs that weren't due to ordinary wear and tear (like brakes) or collisions (my poor Integra! sob!).

Unless their quality takes a major downturn, I suspect I'm a Honda guy for life.

So I guess I'd have to recommend the Element (although I don't care for the styling).

Jeff Cooper – April 28, 2008 09:07PM Reply Quote
Rereading my prior post made me realize that I've experienced just about all of Honda's automotive evolution. Granted, by the time my '83 Civic came along, Honda had pretty well figured out the basics and was producing some good cars. But the year before, in my senior year of high school, my girlfriend had a red '77 Civic (not the CVCC model). And that thing was a piece of crap. Its 0-60 time was something like 18 seconds. It topped out at 75 mph--with a tailwind. Highway onramps were harrowing. It was also basically incapable of stopping. And it was a death trap. I remember researching crash test results. At the time, if a car received a score of 1000 in a front-end collision, it meant likely death for the occupants. The '77 Civic had a rating of about 2300. A pedestrian who leaned on the car too heavily would reduce its occupants to bloody pulps.

By comparison, my '83 was a freaking Mercedes. It had gained just enough size; it felt solid; it had a great manual gearbox; it handled nimbly; it was tolerably quick (though not fast) and capable of 100 mph (okay, again with a tailwind). And, somewhat implausibly, its crash test score was around 400; I think the only car that did better that year was a Volvo. Honda made amazing strides during the six years that separated the '77 and the '83.

But that '77 Civic took us to some fun places. And I learned something about the circumstances in which car windows fog up.


Oh. Where was I? Right. Hondas. Good cars.

Cloudscout – April 28, 2008 09:19PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
The first car I ever drove (legally) was this:


Well, not that specific one, but it looked exactly the same. A green, 1981 Honda Accord.

John Willoughby – April 29, 2008 01:32AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
First car I bought (mostly) by myself was a 1985 Honda Civic CRX. Great car.

El Jeffe – April 29, 2008 04:24AM Reply Quote
What a journey.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 04/29/2008 04:24AM by El Jeffe.

stan adams – April 29, 2008 01:15PM Reply Quote
My mom got a 1976 V6 Auto Skylark. I learned to drive in it. Very boring performance, looks were not too bad -- it was the Nova body.

Image this with white split bench vinyl seats, white hard top and chrome instead of the blackout trim. Oh, and VERY skinny tires:

I wanted to hang on to the car and stuff a Buick 455 into it but mom and dad decided to get a '83 Regal instead. It had the lame Pontiac 252 V8. I had that until I got an '87 Turbo Regal which is still pretty hot. It is semi-stored over in my 88 year old aunt's garage...

This a cousin of it:

It is sort of the "Luke" to the more common Darth Vaders: Just as fast, does not draw the "hip hop" crowd...

rino – April 30, 2008 12:35PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
> So! Subaru, Suzuki and Honda all have deals going on right now, with a low APR and 2k cashback on 2008 Forresters, and zero-percent finance for 60 months for Elements and SX4's.

Just having conversation as we drove home from Boston last night ... in our 12 year old Jeep Cherokee Sport.
I said it's likely a Forester based on all decision points thus far.
Wife turned conversation into buying new vs. buying used.


Used ==
• someone else pays for massive initial depreciation
• never really sure what you're getting, sure there are ways to pull histories but...
• less clear path on relationship to dealer and warranty if any exists

New ==
• you pay for massive initial depreciation unless you happen to buy a Mini :) or a handful of other cars
• warranty, "Handle it Roy, handle it!"
• new car smell

Dr. Strangelove – April 30, 2008 04:09PM Reply Quote
When I went through this last summer/fall looking for an Outback, I compared prices at Carmax versus new. Maybe Carmax is overpriced, but it didn't seem like I would save enough going the used route. So we bought new. I guess that's the downside of cars holding their resale value.

El Jeffe – April 30, 2008 04:11PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I have a lot of thoughts on cars. Not enough time to cover them, though. At the moment.

stan adams – April 30, 2008 07:47PM Reply Quote
Desirable cars don't drop in value enough to justify used. Undesirable cars drop like rocks. Only a handful are worth buying, and usually becuase of what makes them undesirable to the masses is NOT way you are buying.

I have had pretty much excellent luck buying used cars. A fe used Tarus wagons served me, my bicycles and dogs very well.

A used Olds Cierra was the perfect stealth car for my job in a crummy neighborhood.

A used Olds Bravada is/was a perfect tank for my occaisonal need to have a second car that has room for car seats and dog. Sure it sucks gas like a junky needs heroin, but I never drive it far and since I got it long after GM had killed off the division I got so cheap I can afford to gas it up.

El Jeffe – May 01, 2008 06:34AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Coolest cars under $18k.



I've driven all but the Lancer (which I think shares some design with the patriot?).
The RABBIT got me into looking at all of these and it's surprisingly nice/good. I had never heard of Active Steering. Not sure I could tell anything with it. But, nice car.
The Patriot, which currently/recently could be found with as much as like $2,500 rebate/support; putting the price potentially down in Yaris territory. Very good bargain.
Mazda3 is nice, but the Mazdaspeed3 spoils me and I might not be able to buy a non-speed one.
Vibe - I'd pick this over Matrix if only for the availability of on*star.
xB - if you like it, you like it.
SX4 - very peppy, fun, awd car. I shy away due to dealer network, support, longevity, etc. But I like THIS car (only).
Impreza - to ME, it's very TINNY feeling. And like the Mazda3, I would not want it since the WRX exists.
Focus - you can get them cheap. they are ugly. they can rev and burn the tires with the manual (I KNOW). but just not a complete package.
Fit - too premium-polished, but not enough there for the price. It's a slow assed dog. The paddle shifters suck and there is no reason for them. The Versa promptly trumps it, though larger. If you like Honda, you'll goosestep to this car, though.

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