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tliet's Avatar Picture tliet – December 17, 2007 03:22AM Reply Quote
Discuss it here

Cloudscout – March 07, 2008 12:26PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
You ah tigah now!

stan adams – March 07, 2008 12:42PM Reply Quote
An institution/campus with plentiful WiFi would almost certainly see itself swamped if didn't actively look for VOIP pattern packets, but knowing how many "pointy haired bosses" are out there I can see them trying to "save money" by giving people the means to really suck up bandwidth.

{See, my dept. has NO telcom costs. Z_E_R_O, we went VOIP. Whadda mean that we're the biggest user of WiFi on campus? You track that? I thought that was FREE...}

Mokers (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 12:47PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Yes, but if this institution required you to authenticate to use the wireless or any other network services anyway, they could easily manage who has access.

Edit: Watching the iPhone SDK thing. I tell you what, if Apple really wanted to, they would license the iPhone OS and pretty much kill off Symbian and Palm. Hell, they could give away iPhone OS just so AAC/mp4 become even more standard. Imagine what a few hundred million safari users a year would mean. Steve Jobs could just send a box of pampers to all the CEOs of the music companies. And think what a few hundred million extra safari users would mean for the platform. Jobs won't do it, of course, but it would be interesting.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 12:54PM by Mokers.

Cloudscout – March 07, 2008 03:24PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
What a stupid limitation. Sure, third parties can write apps for the iPhone now but users can only run one of them at a time. You can't have an app continue running in the background while you momentarily switch to a different application. This means that you can't stay logged into your Instant Messenger app while you go and browse your music collection or check your email.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 03:38PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
As long as the IM program saves your chats and signs you back on fairly quickly, I am sure it is harmless. Would much rather have the extra battery life. And the hackers won't go away!

Mighty Mouse – March 07, 2008 03:46PM Reply Quote
Batteries suck. And until they catch up with our current level of tech and don't suck, that's the nature of the beast.

If multiple applications were allowed to run in the background, care to guess how much bitching and moaning you'd see about non-existent battery life?

As Mokers states, if the app is done right, it won't matter to the end user. It's a necessary compromise due, at the root level, to not having a battery that can keep up.

El Jeffe – March 07, 2008 04:07PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
again, how much more run time would someone put up with for another 2 mm, 4 mm on up thickness? I think SOME users would opt, like cell phones (of OLDEN days?) to get a thicker phone for more battery life. And, they might be easier to grab on to if they were thicker, too.

What a journey.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 04:12PM Reply Quote
no no no -- Apple products always get thinner, smaller, lighter

If you want to go back to the "bad old days" we will be forced to surround you with 6500's and turn up the subwoofer until you think Norriega got off easy in Panama...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 04:13PM by stan adams.

El Jeffe – March 07, 2008 04:14PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I can only take SO MUCH Van Halen.

What a journey.

morganti – March 07, 2008 05:01PM Reply Quote
Well, I dont know the IM protocols very well, but I seem to recall (back in the day when I used it) that YahooIM would allow you to send im's to people that weren't online, and they would "show up" when they logged on. Same if they were simply "away". I dont know about AIM or Jabber or iChat, but I think that would solve the issue with a IM client. As for an RSS feed, uh, big whoop, they arent exactly "large volume" so you flip over to your RSS feed and as it comes up it refreshes.

Anyone wanna bet that "big players" may get special dispensation to "be in the background"? I mean, if MS or ADOBE comes by and says, we have this kickass new app but its something we need to have running pretty "constantly" in the background, can we "get'er done? I bet apple might play ball for a 100 dollar app that they get say 70 (or even 50bux) per user from...

As a complete aside, I just got through listening to Macbreak Weekly and they had an idea for a Amazon app that I would just kill for. Basically, you take a picture of the barcode on a product and it "reads it" and looks on Amazon for that product and lets you one click buy it. Come on... talk about impulse buying? Books, DVDs, CDs, toys and gadgets?

Morg "I'd probably go broke, but I'd want it" anti

Cloudscout – March 07, 2008 05:18PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
Not having your IM client in the background means not being notified when a new message arrives.

The best implementation of mobile IM so far has been on the Sidekick.

Speaking of the Sidekick, how is it that everyone seems to be missing the direct parallels between the iPhone and the SK? Remember all of my lengthy ramblings about how Apple should buy Danger because their business model seemed to mesh so well with Apple's? Have you noticed that the iPhone's business model is EXACTLY THE SAME?

Phone tied to a single carrier.
SDK requires a developer key to test apps on phone.
App distribution only available through proprietary online store.

Steve isn't breaking any new ground here. It's been done before.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 05:23PM Reply Quote
Somehow doubt we'll see any MS apps for the iPhone, there is the little thing called "windows mobile" that they sorta think is kinda better than all that...

Mokers (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 06:34PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
But the sidekick IM is not IP based, right? It still only runs on the T-Mobile network?

I guess in your case, you want to be able to surf Safari and now exactly when you get a new text message. In that case, yes, you are fucked and you'll probably have to use meebo or something. However, in my case, I would much rather have the battery life than keep that persistent IP connection open. Text messaging and all that jazz. I really see no cause for an uproar. Wait until it is hacked or iPhone OS 3.0 comes out.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 07:26PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
stan adams
Somehow doubt we'll see any MS apps for the iPhone, there is the little thing called "windows mobile" that they sorta think is kinda better than all that...

Somehow doubt we'll see any MS apps for the iMac, there is the little thing called "windows" that they sorta think is kinda better than all that...

Cloudscout – March 07, 2008 10:37PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
The iPhone maintains a persistent IP connection anyway. That's how push email works. Just because you have the connection doesn't mean that the link can't be idle.

The SK does use IP for its instant messaging app. That's why you can't send/receive messages during a phone call.

Actually, if they had 3G support, you would be able to. UMTS/HSDPA support simultaneous voice and data connections. Kinda cool if you have a headset on and want to get some information from the Internet while talking to someone on the phone.

tomierna (Admin) – March 07, 2008 11:42PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
Jailbreak your iPhone. Install SysInfo.

System load for my iPhone right now:

.32 .23 .25

Basically, 1/4 of the phone's proc is being used when it's sitting there idle.

MobileMusicPlayer, MobileMail, MobilePhone, SpringBoard, CommCenter, notifyd, ptpd, syslogd lockdownd, mDNSResponder, and about 10 other procs are running on my phone in the background right now.

This restriction is purely for stability, and as long as the app saves state, it should be relatively fine.

Also, I'm guessing that there's may be system-wide service for notifications, so your app doesn't have to be running to know that it needs to pop up.

johnny k – March 08, 2008 12:02AM Reply Quote
The guidelines seem to say that no third-party app can run in the background (and I'm sure they will make exceptions for big cheeses like AIM), but that doesn't mean that Apple apps like the music player can't. Doesn't that mean that you can pop the music controls up and go back to the third-party app?

In any case, I'm guessing that Apple is doing what it can to avoid computer-like problems on what is supposed to be a phone, and until they have a way to sandbox things better or vet background daemons, this is what they're doing. I don't think people should have to know how to force-quit an iPhone app. And for the most part, it's acknowledged as nice UI for the app to know where you left off without explicitly saving it.

stan adams – March 08, 2008 11:32AM Reply Quote
Dr Phred
Somehow doubt we'll see any MS apps for the iMac, there is the little thing called "windows" that they sorta think is kinda better than all that...

Two different philosophies inside MSFT. One side of the house is/was the "apps" side. Office is the biggies, but Outlook is the only "bridge". The whole other side of MSFT is driven by the "us VS whatever dares to stand in our way" -- MSN, Xbox, Zune, windows mobile, the OS are part of the "bend your knee before us" side of the house. The sense I get from MSFT is that they'll only release apps for if there the other side of the house gives 'em the OK -- god forbide that doing so would actually give another platform a boost. There are exceptions, live with MSN Messenger, but that has to be a huge money loser for MSFT , oddly it seems that they almost don't mind losing money if the alternative is to be completely shut out of a "space" and if Ballmer & Co is to be believed in their public statements they STILL feel the WinMo is THE choice for 'devices'...

rino – March 08, 2008 01:20PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
but SB said "we're selling millions and millions and millions of phones per year" and "Would I trade 96% of the market for 4% of the market? I want to have products that appeal to everybody," he said. "We'll get a chance to go through this [Apple versus Microsoft debate] again in phones and music players. There's no chance that the iPhone is going to get any significant market share. No chance. It's a $500 subsidized item. They may make a lot of money. But if you actually take a look at the 1.3 billion phones that get sold, I'd prefer to have our software in 60% or 70% or 80% of them, than I would to have 2% or 3%, which is what Apple might get."

Just for fun:

stan adams – March 09, 2008 09:56PM Reply Quote
Anybody watch the HD version of the iPhone SDK roadmap?

MAN is SJ thin.

Is there are seam down the front of his mock-turtleneck? Or jut a really odd set of pressing marks?

And SJ's voice? Has it become even more oddly like John Sculley?

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