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rino's Avatar Picture rino – December 11, 2007 09:54AM Reply Quote
Generally miffed at something? Let the world know.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/11/2007 09:54AM by rino.

tliet – December 18, 2008 10:42AM Reply Quote
As someone who finally got his boss convinced to buy him a PowerMac 7200/100 with 7.5.2, I can definitely add to this. Yes, the Mac SE, II series, those where the days. But in the 1995 period, Apple lost a lot of customers who discovered what it was like to be dependent on a single (crappy) supplier.

rino – December 18, 2008 12:08PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I'd add to this as well. I have fewer problems today but treat them more roughly than ever.

John Willoughby – December 18, 2008 12:54PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I'm talking about after the lines were consolidated. Yeah, the whole Performa/Quadra/Centris era was a mess. I had very good luck with my PowerBook 100/520c/3400/Pismo/Lombard purchases, though. Once we got to the TiBooks, I started having what I now think of as lowered quality control: paint blisters, logic board failures, frequent issues requiring firmware update fixes. That's when AppleCare became mandatory for me. I'd rather have better QC, but I'm also paying $2,500 for a laptop instead of $3,500.

Roger – December 18, 2008 02:27PM Reply Quote
The flakiest and least reliable Mac I ever owned was a Powerbook 2400c -- logic board failures galore -- from right in the middle of the era you're talking about. And I saw multiple major hardware problems on basically all the laptops I supported during that period (except the "Blackbird" 520/540 laptops: those really were bulletproof). I don't think there was ever a golden era of ironclad Apple hardware. And the drastically lower replacement cost now means that total hardware failures hurt much less than they used to.

John Willoughby – December 18, 2008 03:09PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I must concede the point, I find, though my experience has been otherwise.

Cloudscout – December 18, 2008 03:43PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
I wish they would use a material for the wrist-rest area that my super-corrosive hands don't etch away. My last several laptops have developed ugly erosion along the wrist-rest.

rino – December 18, 2008 03:49PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
You like one of those frogs that exude toxins?

Jeff Cooper – December 18, 2008 05:02PM Reply Quote
I am going to have kids just so I can start buying Duplos and Legos again.

That's as good a reason as any, and better than most. I love playing with Duplos with my daughter and Legos with my son.

As a general matter, the market seems to prefer price over quality. Look at DVD-R and CDR media--the cheap stuff drove the good stuff out years ago. Look at hard drives--Seagate's quality seems to have plummeted over the last few years as hard drive prices have plummeted.

But as for Apple, I agree with Dr. P: I'm not sure when this mythological time of high quality control was. Okay, my SE has been solid as a rock for 20 years now (not that it gets much use anymore), but every model I purchased from 1995 on had some pretty serious issues reported (although I was lucky enough to miss out on most of those issues).

Dr Phred (Moderator) – December 18, 2008 06:42PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Ok the SE era, they where built like tanks, But that ended in the early 90's.

tliet – December 18, 2008 08:09PM Reply Quote
I loved the IIcx and IIci, those were solid machines that were quite easy to take apart, but slightly cheaper than the preceding range. The SE and Mac II were indeed the best machines Apple has ever made (although the LC475 is a really close contender), made out of lots of iron (the disk bay of the II was epic) and heavy, heavy plastic.

tomierna (Admin) – December 18, 2008 08:18PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
I was a big fan of the Quadra 800s, aside from being a bitch to get into, they were rock solid machines.

The 840av wasn't as stable, and the 8100 was terrible for the first couple of OS revs.

SoupIsGood Food – December 18, 2008 09:56PM Reply Quote
I started out with a Mac Portable, and moved on to a Mac IIx (both of which were terribly obsolete, but the IIx managed to keep up a lot longer than I would have thought possible.)

At this time, I was doing on-site warranty break-fix for Apple, Dell, Compaq, Toshiba, IBM and HP. The Apple stuff was the easiest to take apart and put back together. Dells and Compaqs were a close second, but ALWAYS BROKEN. Especially the notebooks. The hell and horror of the 2400 and the 5300? About average for the PC world at the time, which meant it was screaming-fanboy-hate-hell for Apple, which usually built stuff up to Unix workstation standards.

My first "cutting edge" Mac was the Powerbook G3, which had the display issue that I fixed with a bit of duct-tape, tho apple would have fixed it under warranty with a longer connector cable. It was otherwise indestructable, and I abused the hell out of the thing.

Then came the Pismo, which is the best damn computer I have ever owned or used. The hot-swappable media bay! Dude, this alone put it ahead of most notebooks out there =today=! Be honest... wouldn't you like to slide in a 2nd battery in place of the optical drive wasting space and weight in your MacBook now? I dropped this thing down a flight of stairs. TWICE! The second time busted the power connector from the logic board it was soldered to. I soldered it right back with a set of wire pigtails and electrical tape, and used it for another two years.

Hard. Core.

My iBook is still going strong, despite being dropped a few times, sat on once, and used outside in 20º weather on a regular basis in my "writing outdoors brings character to my work!" phase.

My iMac just sits there most of the day, with its screen off, in my well-dusted and heated study. I haven't even been too terribly tough on its keyboard. And it's already headed south after less than a year.

Not good enough, F--!

rino – December 18, 2008 10:25PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I have one thing to say:

The IIci.

Best. Machine. Ever.

El Jeffe – December 18, 2008 10:32PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
My IIci had been a lab one. After that it ran 24x7 at my house for 10 years. Hd had issue I did not want to fuss with. Otherwise it would still be running.

John Willoughby – December 19, 2008 12:18AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
My first color Mac was a IIci; it was also my first Mac with a hard drive and a laser printer (non-PostScript). The whole system was $6,500; I got a student loan to pay for it. I never paid more for a system.

tomierna (Admin) – December 19, 2008 01:00AM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
I loved the cx/ci's as well - as I was becoming a tech support guy, we were using the cx/ci's as workstations. They were being transitioned out for the Quadras while I was training. We used the leftovers for print queues and servers for a long time after that. I even had to sabotage the SCSI port on one poor ci to get a machine to replace our server. Damn thing ran too well for progress. (I clipped one of the wires from the DB25 connector to the motherboard, and repaired it after it was replaced).

I remember with awe, adding a 40 MB hard drive to one of these, when RAM was in the 2MB range.

tomierna (Admin) – December 19, 2008 01:04AM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
DPBD. On the cx's we added Radius NuBus cards for 24 bit graphics on huge 17" CRT monitors of the time. Hell, I think the ci's were used in the scanning department, with even better graphics cards, the internal graphics used for palettes in Photoshop. These were drum scanning stations, with special not-really-SCSI NuBus cards that connected to these mad spinning beasts with tube sensors for CMYK, not RGB.

Our technological advances since then (which was a mere 15 years ago) are amazing.

tliet – December 19, 2008 02:48AM Reply Quote
Forgot about the Quadra 950... I have used that machine at the office (when it looked like Apple would go away forever) way too long, way into 1997. That was also a damn fine machine, bit on the big side however.

I remember somewhere in 1992 or 93 we stuffed a Quadra 900 full of 8 Mb SIMMS so it had 128 Mb. Took 2 minutes for the black screen after the boot flute to turn into the happy Mac.

Good times...

ARL (Moderator) – December 19, 2008 06:08AM Reply Quote
I don't buy it.

They have the highest margins by far in the business. If half of their marketing/pr budget went to quality control I'd be far happier.

On another tangent tho...

A jumbo biffy-sized milkshake to apple though for the way they've lost their market-leading "it just works" edge with consumer level video editing.

iMovie '08 is an unusable clusterfuck and FCE will import DV and AVCHD but not MPEG-2. There are basically no DV-based cameras on the market that will work with either iMovie or FCE (Firewire on a low-end camera? Forget it...USB-no-workee for DV). The mid range (non-HD) cameras are all MPEG-2 and no, I don't want to shell out A$1000+ plus for a low-end HD camera just to film my kid's first christmas/birthday/steps/humurous-bicycle-crash etc. Yes I know MPEG-2 is a horrible sucky format for editing but for SD (which is all I want, I don't think I really want to record my daughter projectile vomiting in HD on her first birthday - it's a bit of overkill) it is the consumer standard.

So, I could have shelled out well over A$1000 for a HD camera and FCE but I've gone cheap(ish) and bought a $600 camera (I really would have been happy to buy a DV-based $300 one - but sorry, NO Firewire). Now I'll have to deal with iMovie08 (which is an unusable pile of shite) export it out before the damn thing crashes and then do all sorts of Voodoo with a 3rd party app like MPEG-Streamclip (which will bugger the image-quality) just to get it to load into FCE.


And no, stick your iPod/iPhones where they fit (even though - unlike your video products - I'm sure they actually do "just work"...)


Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 12/19/2008 06:09AM by Tony Leggett.

John Willoughby – December 19, 2008 12:22PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
You DO know that you can still download the older iMovie? It's what I use. The new iMovie is only good for dumping an entire camera-load onto DVD. As soon as you get into editing, you're screwed.

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