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tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – March 22, 2010 08:28PM Reply Quote
The opposite of Love Stinks!

John Willoughby – March 23, 2010 10:40AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Hate is great?

tliet – March 23, 2010 11:36AM Reply Quote

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 23, 2010 06:22PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Happy Happy Joy Joy.

Ah, that's better!

tliet – March 24, 2010 12:17AM Reply Quote
Good to hear that FLL, I'm happy for you.

ddt – March 24, 2010 12:37PM Reply Quote
well, here's your chance to earn big points, phred! be a mensch. and I'll echo Ton and say I'm totes happy for you!

tom, want to further seed the topic by sharing your "how you met" story?


stan adams – March 29, 2010 09:52AM Reply Quote
I am not a big fan of "relationship book" or frankly other stuff in the "self help" category. I was given a book with lots of data that seems to avoid most of the preachy type stuff (while still having lots of their 'scriptural references, which I cynically take as way to market to a particular segment that seems to be more likely to spend money on 'serialized' stuff, if you know what I mean...) and stick to objective conclusions about what most women express about their relationships: http://www.amazon.com/Men-Only-Straightforward-Guide-Inner/dp/1590525728/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid=1269873792&sr=8-3

Not a "silver bullet" by itself, but certainly a helpful tool, and it reinforces lots of the stuff that is proven by John Gray's personal divorce to be insufficient to understand on a purely intellectual level... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Gray_(U.S._author)#Personal_life

btw, you ever notice how falling in love and really making-up release an almost superhuman surge of good feelings?

I think the "positive feedback loop" of reinforcement that comes from successful dating / relationship can get people through damned near anything...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 03/29/2010 10:06AM by stan adams.

John Willoughby – March 29, 2010 10:56AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Which is why I always date people during my marriage's rough spots. Smooths things over nicely.

stan adams – March 29, 2010 11:02AM Reply Quote
I could see that sorta working, and in the theoretical "best case scenario" of your spouse doing the same the transition could be timed so that just as the glow of dating one person wears away having good ol' JW there to rebound would be tremendously comforting, as long as you are being transformed into a reptile or something ;^)

ddt – March 29, 2010 11:32AM Reply Quote
terrible book title, but interesting research on how various brain and body systems work to construct/react to the mix of things connoted by the word "love": http://www.helenfisher.com/books.html


Mokers (Moderator) – March 30, 2010 03:59PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
I can't even muster the urge to make fun of the health care bill if I've received a text message from a person I like. It just takes the surliness out of me.

stan adams – April 19, 2010 02:24PM Reply Quote
Intellectually, I am an atheist. As a science teacher, even in a religious high school, this was not a problem. I was, however raised within a pretty strict faith, and that undoubtedly shaped me and my expectations for my kids. Lest you get the impression that I am going to announce I am heading off to Religious Net or something rest assured I still know who I am and what I distrust. Organized religion remains high on that list. However, a long time ago, I went to a State University, and took nearly enough classes from the Theology Department to have a major in religous studies. I liked the counterpoint it gave me, and the ease with which I could coast through classes.

Humankind is a spiritual and highly emotional species. No matter how hard we try to fight against that, I believe more than ever that it is impossible to separate spirituality and emotionalism from our basic human needs. Personally it is not up there with food, and even other bodily needs rank higher MOST of the time, but when you are forced by the calendar and/or the death of those close to you to confront your mortality a switch kicks over big time in either your head or that of your spouse that sends ripples through your whole world.

It is damned near impossible to find any relationship advice that is not laden with an almost overwhelming about of spiritual stuff. It strikes me that the fundamentalist and evangelic churches that are successful and highly organized pretty much universally make "marital relationships" a huge part of their message. I am, however, some one that has studied scripture at a secular University and in doing so the Professors that I had, whether they themselves were Jews, Protestants, Catholics or agnostics, pretty much universally agreed that the majority of fundamentalist types get it wrong when it comes to the scriptures of both the Old and New Testament. The overwhelming majority of stuff in scripture that seems to address relationships between men and women is really directed toward the relationship of mankind and the supernatural. The tiny bits of advice about martial authority and such are from a time when 'war" meant enslavement, lack of herds / property meant starvation and the extinguishmnet of your "line", and marital harmony meant you had a mate.

I have also studied enough of 'world religions' to know that non-Judeo-Christian spirituality is generally NOT focused on the sort of "personal God" that is common in the west. Despite this difference there is a similar need for those to find meaning in not just being part of an earthly family, but in being part of a spiritual or supernatural world view. The "happily married and monogamous" Hindu or Buddhist probably spends even more time in meditation that the most orthodox Jew or Christian spends at services. The various faiths have a multitude to support the families that cluster together. And those folks that do not cluster together physically on a regular basis have their various electronis "churches" that the interwebs have made more numerous.

The reasons I am laying these things out in the Oxytocin thread are not because I have discovered the secret to week long orgasms through spam about tantric sex, but that by getting to re-acquainted with my own needs and those of my wife I have more convinced that is futile for me to separate spirituality and emotionalism.

Again, this is not some recent discovery, I've been exposed to this line of thought over and over, and have attempted to reject it. I am certainly NOT saying that is necessary for eveyone to express their need for spirituality via an organized religion, and leave room for the possibility that some one could possibly be raised / develop in such a way that they may be capable of finding fulfillment with a similarly raised / developed partner that has a non-spiritual world view, though that seems a very remote possibility. Personally the rediscovery of this is what has given my wife and I new hope about our future.

My wife and I are as busy as we have ever been, and we are still seeing therapists, but over the past month or so the work we done away from the therapists to reconnect spirituality as been the most beneficial. I am not saying this to 'recruit' anyone and I have to acknowledge that a large part of our 'crisis' was very much a classic "midlife" event. We are, in a way, fortunate that we were raised in the same faith, but very differently, and the sort of void that both of us felt about our relationship was certainly NOT filled by any organized religious activity. We have largely reconnected by acknowledging that our feelings / emotions about many things are different, but our need to feel 'wed in spirit and purpose'...

I am no "Jedi Master" at this, but I really do feel more than a little silly because my wife and I have been involved in helping engaged couples off to a good start on their marriage for more than 14 years. In a classic case of the "shoemakers children go barefoot" we had been neglecting our own relationship until it had too many holes in it to ignore. The blow-up that led to me staying in a Motel 6 about a month ago was a "break glass in case of emergency" kind of thing on some level. We really are moving in the right direction again.

It feels really good, but it is not a short cut and the key is that we both decided that we really do want the same things.

John Willoughby – April 19, 2010 02:28PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Really nice post, Stan. Thanks.

tliet – April 19, 2010 02:30PM Reply Quote
Indeed, well said.

stan adams – April 19, 2010 02:32PM Reply Quote
I hope it helps everyone. If anyone wants to get a hold of me privately I think the address in my profile is accurate, though I sometimes go a week or so between checking it...

Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 04/19/2010 02:35PM by stan adams.

ARL (Moderator) – April 20, 2010 05:56PM Reply Quote
Well put, Stan.

We all need to make sense of the world.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – May 22, 2010 08:39AM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
It suppose it's telling that this thread is much more dead that the Love Stinks one.

stan adams – May 24, 2010 11:24AM Reply Quote
I actually had a great weekend, and I think Mrs. Adams did too. Sometimes it is not so much about 'communication' as 'misperceptions' and she was noting some behaviors of mine that led to our big blow-up. Fortunately these behaviors were not due to the same stuff, and we were able to put things right in a big way.

John Willoughby – May 24, 2010 11:46AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Great news, I'm glad.

Ron Burns – May 24, 2010 05:48PM Reply Quote
"We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation." Voltaire
Good news Stan. Glad to hear it.

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