Spork Boards

Granberry's Parlor

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:46AM Reply Quote
Politics. Don Granberry on the old Spork Boards was quite fond of talking about them, and here we continue on in that fine tradition.

tomierna (Admin) – February 27, 2008 02:09PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
I have been trying to contact Don Granberry for quite a while now. I believe that the person this forum is named after is the person I seek.
Would anyone know how to contact him or be willing to pass on a message for me?

Don hasn't been seen on our lovely boards since mid-2002.


rino – February 27, 2008 07:23PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I shave.

See the top of my head?

Robert Taylor – February 28, 2008 03:09PM Reply Quote
Nice try.



This is what passes for a science article in today's mainstream conservative media. But it's part of a tragic pattern that's all too familiar. One not confined to science or conservative rags (If only it were!). Tripe like this is grist for our Idiocracy to be passed back and forth among conservative circles, gaining half-witted followers and losing detail like a game of telegraph in a Kindergarten class, until it ultimately leaks in some form into conventional media wisdom. How long before the anti-science lobby enlists the media in hope of discrediting climate science, by citing that very headline to imply how looney those silly scientists were for warning of a looming ice age in 2008? Not long I bet.



The year 2007 tied for second warmest in the period of instrumental data, behind the record warmth of 2005, in the Goddard Institute for Space Studies (GISS) analysis.

stan adams – February 28, 2008 05:16PM Reply Quote

In my day-to-day experience I find that ALL manner of media is quite guilty of exactly what the dailykos post is drawing attention to -- in fact there were citations just a few months ago in the NYT and elsewhere to studies that showed EVERYONE is more strongly influenced by "recent events" than pretty much ANYTHING that is recorded.

The real tragedy is that squabbles like these are worse than counterproductive. The fact is whether one believes that humans can impact global climate or not there is neither a concerted effort to work toward stabilizing global temperatures NOR is there much serious effort to deal with the probability that there will be increased global climatic variability. Further,the "profit" from carbon credits and other schemes has been found to have little/no impact on actually reducing global green house gas emissions. The real "pressure" on systems that are important to humans (and or way of life...) are those that need to grow regardless of increased or decreased temps -- tops are power/electricty and fresh water.

Neither is "sexy" in the same way that "saving the rainforest/whales" is but without HUGE efforts to get a lot more fresh water and electricity to a lot more people there is going to be a whole lot more human misery...

John Willoughby – February 28, 2008 08:00PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Uninformed blog post => links on many other blogs that don't verify => news story referencing "blog story" phenomena => original source lost, mainstream media reports blog headline as a fact.

dharlow – February 29, 2008 10:58AM Reply Quote
find a different way of shipping mass goods (semi trailers are convenient but terribly energy inefficient).

I do not understand why we did not keep investing in rail for transporting mass goods, it has to be more efficient then the hundreds of semi-trailers I see on the freeway.


ghidorah – February 29, 2008 11:03AM Reply Quote
Raise taxes on cavemen. --jw
More energy efficient but much less convenient &/or timely. Stores would have to ave much more on-site or local storage since rail-shiped goods would probably take significantly more time to come in. Its much easier to load one trailer for a specific store shipment then it is to load a train of several dozen cars with shipments for 10 or 20 stores along the way.

stan adams – February 29, 2008 11:20AM Reply Quote

Generic "shipping containers" that cross the ocean by boat, the continent by rail and get from regional hubs to the stores/factories/warehouses by truck. Stuff moves fairly quickly, generally weeks. A large percentage of what is in motion at any given time is in such "supply chains", the time critical stuff is harder to move by rail (average west coast to east trip takes 10+days via train vs 4 or less via truck), mostly because the railyards in most of the US are near/over capacity. There are efforts to build more freight terminals, and [not suprisingly] there are lots of computer science type problems that help to improve the capacity:





El Jeffe – February 29, 2008 07:29PM Reply Quote
What a journey.

tliet – March 01, 2008 01:26AM Reply Quote
Having worked for a software company 14 years ago that was specialised in the reduction of so called 'empy milage' I'm all too familiar with intermodal transport. One of the problems between rail and trucking is the fact that by default trucking is much more competitive. It would take enormous amounts of political strength to tax trucking to death. Much of the transportation that goes around in Europe could be handled by train, if only the train systems (being former state monopolies) would get their act together.

15 years ago, I was told that the average speed of a freight train through Europe was like 6 kms an hour. Compare that to the 60 kms an hour for a truck and the fact that it does door to door delivery and you've got a losing proposition.

It is getting better now however, in the Netherlands a brand new railroad has just gone into production, directly from Rotterdam to Germany's Ruhrgebiet. Hopefully it will reduce the amount of trucking a bit.

Not quite related, but in Bangalore I saw a lot of these three wheelers. Which I thought was very nice for fine distribution in inner cities (which Europe has a lot of). Packing goods in a small lightweight container to be placed on a vehicle like this for the last few miles sounds good to me.

tliet – March 01, 2008 05:44AM Reply Quote

A sobering report on USA Today which may be interpreted to see how the financial policy of the last few years is working out on the small scale of things.


My guess; the taxcuts will keep the fire burning for a few more months before the whole house of cards completely collapses.

El Jeffe – March 01, 2008 08:21AM Reply Quote
What a journey.

tliet – March 01, 2008 12:37PM Reply Quote
Lots of weird mortgage constructions. My friend in London bought a flat together with his girlfriend. The exact details of the construction are unknown to me, but apparently they own 49 or 51 percent of the flat while the council owns the remainder. It's possible for them to buy more parts in the future when they will be able to afford them.

The Dutch market is also pretty much fucked up. Our 30 year full interest deduction has that covered. Banks will invent any type of construction to get their grubby hands on the interest payment for a full 30 years, making sure nobody is trying to pay off their debt. The marketing for these mortgages is laughable once you understand the basics. Yet, even talking about abandoning the deduction is political suicide.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/01/2008 12:38PM by tliet.

El Jeffe – March 01, 2008 12:46PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Yeah, those sound strange/sucky.

It's hard for ME to tell, then, what is affordable in any area that I might be able to find a job, until I fully understand how the housing market works in those areas.

What a journey.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 01, 2008 07:56PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin

When I say education, I don't necessarily mean college. It starts out with high school. There was a time when you could graduate high school, find a good job, get married, and raise kids on your own. That time has passed. If you aren't willing to further your education, then you are going to have a shitty life. And if you fuck off during high school, there might not be somebody around to bail you out. Maybe you have to go to community college until you can afford a four year school. Maybe college is not for you so you do ITT or DeVry or something.

Not saying that there isn't improvements to be made in higher education funding, etc, but there are ways that you can work hard and make yourself better. And just because you aren't given an easy path doesn't mean you should give up. I have had family members who came from Africa that were able to make it through college while learning english and now own their own homes. Oh and they managed to save money and bring their spouses/kids over to live with them too. Perhaps my experience has been skewed but I think if people have the will, they can find a way.

And yes, I realize that there are people in circumstances that makes it very difficult to achieve even that high school diploma. Those are the types of areas where we need government intervention, when kids can't learn because they don't have a place to sleep or are hungry or their parents beat them.

El Jeffe – March 01, 2008 08:11PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
My kids get straight As and I beat them! (Because if they got Bs or Cs they know I'd beat them HARDER!)


What a journey.

ddt – March 01, 2008 08:11PM Reply Quote
absolutely -- agree w/ much of what you have to say, joe.

and there are always the exceptional rise-above it cases. my father was one -- poor immigrant w/o english, public schools, worked his way through high school and college and law school.

but one can argue the social structure then is not equivalent to now. just heard new studies that confirm further the negative cognitive development effects stress, poor nutrition and lack of stimulation can have in early childhood. that is: mcdonalds (or the equivalent) two-three times a day, unhappy families, poor early education, can leave kids with actual, physical brain damage. they're just not going to be able to buckle down, no matter how willing.

sadly, it's the people who are in charge now who have been gutting head start, pre-natal programs and the like for the poor. there's got to be some tipping point at which the odds are so stacked against some people. and even if it's still possible to rise above, isn't it better (and cheaper in the long run) for a society to invest in making sure the odds always tip _in favor_ of people? what's this calvinist "if they didn't succeed, they didn't deserve to" crap? who cares? if they fail, deserving or no, there's a huge cost to society compared to them becoming productive citizens, and not just financial cost (that is, even if welfare disappeared, for example).


El Jeffe – March 01, 2008 08:13PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I find it odd that the recent Dodi rant was rebuffed by all UK media and people as "Yeah, it would have taken the coordination of MI6, 100 other people, the CIA and such to kill Diana and no one talked" and it's widely accepted.



What a journey.

rino – March 01, 2008 10:16PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Like to hear more about your family Mokers.


There is the notion that even with rising prices it's still easier, more affordable to live in America. Even with our geography of nowhere (that's our sprawling metropolis's with no character or sense of place) maybe that's better for folks.
I choose to live within a sense of place however and it's more expensive.

Education? So many institutions have so much money that those top ones ought to all be free if you can get in ... the one I work for announced this on a sub 1 billion dollar endowment!

I did junior college, army, 4 year college, and grad school (where I got full ride after getting into 4 good programs).
Anything can be done. I had no clue how to do this with no models in my family to show the way. I can certainly imagine an immigrant could do the same and probably have some coaching along the way.


Anyway... my hazy flu head forget's what I really wanted to say.

tliet – March 02, 2008 12:45AM Reply Quote
Bill, this article may be of interest to you.

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