Spork Boards

Granberry's Parlor

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:46AM Reply Quote
Politics. Don Granberry on the old Spork Boards was quite fond of talking about them, and here we continue on in that fine tradition.

James DeBenedetti – July 02, 2016 07:55PM Reply Quote
Umm... no. Texas gets $1.43 for every dollar in federal income tax it pays, California gets just $0.94. And don’t try even try to use immigrant support as an excuse for the difference.

Ron Burns – July 02, 2016 08:19PM Reply Quote
"We look to Scotland for all our ideas of civilisation." Voltaire
What's the news about where DDT? Joke in bad taste summarising the salience of the Irish situation during the campaign. Virtually nothing was said about what seems to me likely to be one of the most serious issues arising, despite some of us shouting vainly from the sidelines. The obvious immediate effect is likely to be economic with about €1bn year cross border trade - the border at the moment being nominal of course, so very susceptible to the outcome of final agreements. Northern Ireland has also done - and I think continues to do - well from EU regional funds and other support which is now thrown into doubt. More worrying IMO are the possible political effects. The 1988 Belfast Agreement (the Good Friday agreement) was underpinned by the availability of the Council of Ministers as a neutral venue, and in any case joint membership diluted the nationalism which drove the Republic's claim to the six counties. That political environment has been destabilised. On the ground, the Republic/NI border will be the only UK land border with the EU. Given the centrality of immigration control, there are obvious problems with how this will be operated. The leave throw-away response is that pre-EU there was a local travel agreement between Eire and the UK and that this would continue (Common Travel Area). I'm not sure how many 10's of thousands of EU citizens entering unchecked would be tolerated under the new regime. A new hard border - barriers and armed searches - would be catastrophically damaging. Interestingly too, anyone born in NI is entitled to Irish nationality (as is anyone with an Irish grand-father) so there's another question about a substantial tranche of EU citizens resident in a non-EU NI. Anyone doing anything which might reignite The Troubles doesn't simply need a strait-jacket, they should be locked up. The NI question is of particular interest to a Scot because of the strong links between the communities. The NI protestants (Unionists) were introduced in the 17th century (The Plantation of Ulster) by the English as a strategy to contain the catholic gaelic-speakers, A strong memory from my youth in the West of Scotland is of the Orange Walks - there's rather a nice piece here which reflects my experience exactly. Liverpool has similar links. The failure to deal with these issues is one of the greatest treacheries in this whole mad enterprise. (Did I mention that I voted to remain??)

ARL (Moderator) – July 02, 2016 09:03PM Reply Quote
Re: NI.

I concur with Ron. My great-grandfather was apparently a staunchly proud Orangeman (in other words, a bigoted arsehole).

My grandfather told him where to jam his Orange order nonsense and was staunchly non-sectarian. Yet ironically it was my grandfather murdered in his own home by the IRA.

Bad things™ are likely to come.

El Jeffe – July 02, 2016 09:21PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
one of the first things I learned (more) about once the internet came to this house was the NI troubles.
I had become aware of for the first time a protestant vs catholic division of Christianity. And it totally confounded me.
Especially considering my wife and I are a mixed marriage; by that division's definition.
I always thought of all Christians as Christians. (Still do for most part. Stopped mowing today to talk with a Jehovah Witness family passing out invitations to an Ohio event. Offered them water. Took their invite.)

So, the CONCEPT of protestant being different from catholic so much as to cause violence was foreign to me.
I re/searched and found the Order of the Orange. And contacted them asking them to explain why they would see it that way.
One thing led to another... and I started to get VERY involved in NI news and online groups. Even started a NI discussion board. Have some good 'internet friends'. But frankly, we went to London and NOT Belfast, (london)Derry, etc because of slight fear of the sectarianism. My daughter stood at the door where Martin Luther began this, during her trip last week. I still find it hard to understand.
And the fairly recent inclusion of the Anglican folks in 2012 (?) has had recent impacts on us here. Last week I read about the first ordained MARRIED Priest in our archdiocese. stunned, I tell you.

By the way, we have body searches in and about many of our public gatherings in some aspects. Metal detectors at large events; wanding, pat-downs, etc. It's a strange world. Some searches don't want to restrict guns, just want to make sure they are unloaded, which might not at first seem like what some folks in other places/countries might think would be the desired outcome.

I have heard and keep hearing resonated that an open border, EU is or was a way to keep a tolerance check on trying not to restart what seems to be eternal Europe hostilities/wars every century or so. And Gap years are also helpful along those lines. I can't imagine much changing good relations. Just sounds like trying to keep control of one's currency, economy, and regulations from what I have read.

John Willoughby – July 02, 2016 09:37PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
DDT, I read the Texas-Israeli War many times as a teen. Mostly for the tanks. It was armored-vehicle porn. When work sent me to Texas, I joked with one of my friends that I kept flashing back to the book. He assured me that the war was long past, and everything is fine now. It's weird when you realize that the futuristic books of your youth were set decades ago in what is now your past.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 07/02/2016 09:37PM by John Willoughby.

ARL (Moderator) – July 02, 2016 09:39PM Reply Quote

So, the CONCEPT of protestant being different from catholic so much as to cause violence was foreign to me.

Um, you didn't cover any European history from Henry VIII onwards? Perhaps something closer to home, the puritans on the Mayflower?

That boggles the mind...

ddt – July 02, 2016 11:12PM Reply Quote
JW, ha! I read a copy that was passed around hebrew school -- I think for us it was "the israeli army can kick any ass, at will" propaganda. Funny anyone else read it!


John Willoughby – July 03, 2016 01:18PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I still have my copy... somewhere. Too bad that it's too cheesy and old to ever make the jump to digital. I guess I could tear up my copy and OCR it...

John Willoughby – July 10, 2016 10:43AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I've been thinking about Trump and Roger Ailes, and their alleged sexual misconduct. I think that it's significant that they both entered the business world when white males ruled the earth, "steno pools" often served as private fishing grounds for executives, women executives were unheard of, and sexual harassment of female underlings was common. I know that old school bosses that I have had earlier in my working career kept some/all of this behavior (along with drinking like fish).

Obviously, most men from that era have aged out of the workplace environment (and many have grown with the times and left behind this behavior), but very successful men like Trump and Ailes haven't had to do either.

None of this would explain involvement with underaged girls, or outright rape, or justify ANY of the actions that are alleged against these dinosaurs. But I think that, to some extent, we are seeing a culture clash between the attitudes of the 1950's/60's and the present.

I look forward to when these paleolithic workplace values are extinct.

ddt – July 10, 2016 06:22PM Reply Quote
Guiliani tries to tie police shootings of black men to violence in the communities. The data beg to differ.

Edited to add that under Obama, police killings are about 40% less than they were under Reagan. So, I guess the War on Cops was more a Reagan thing? (Note for those who want to argue from motivation: I am not literally suggesting this, but noting that certain people are trying to use sampling and selection bias to claim Obama and BLM are fomenting a "War on Cops" because, you know, some cops were shot.)


Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 07/10/2016 06:26PM by ddt.

ARL (Moderator) – July 11, 2016 04:57AM Reply Quote

ARL (Moderator) – July 11, 2016 05:07AM Reply Quote


Just as a comparison, while the US is well on the way to cracking a 1,000 kill record in a single year for 2016, Australian police killed just 105 people in 22 years:


In 2013, the Australian Institute of Criminology released a report detailing fatal police shootings between 1989 and 2011. In that period, police fatally shot 105 people. The victims were almost entirely male and 60% were between 20 and 39 years of age.

And in Australia, they're making a big deal over less than 10 killings a a year (trigger happy police brutality etc etc).

No offence, but I wouldn't live in the US if you paid me...

ddt – July 11, 2016 09:45AM Reply Quote


johnny k – July 11, 2016 10:02AM Reply Quote
No offence, but I wouldn't live in the US if you paid me...

Plenty of reasons not to live here, but being killed by a cop is not one. You're white.

ddt – July 11, 2016 12:34PM Reply Quote
Aaaand dog whistle no more: stripping sexual orientation from a human rights law is the first step to banning homosexuality, says Person Involved.



El Jeffe – July 11, 2016 04:48PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
johnny k
No offence, but I wouldn't live in the US if you paid me...

Plenty of reasons not to live here, but being killed by a cop is not one. You're white.

I still WONDER if living in another country would be 'better'... and that is such a subjective thing, I know... and I will never have multiple lives to know.

John Willoughby – July 11, 2016 04:49PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
"I'm being discriminated against because he's not being discriminated against! I demand justice!"

ARL (Moderator) – July 11, 2016 06:54PM Reply Quote
To be fair actually, the preferred method of police killing minorities in Australia is gently beating them to death in the cells. We're old school.

Still, those shooting stats are scary.

James DeBenedetti – July 11, 2016 08:36PM Reply Quote
El Jeffe
I still WONDER if living in another country would be 'better'... and that is such a subjective thing, I know... and I will never have multiple lives to know.

Forget other countries – my wife and I still struggle with the concept of why anyone would want to live outside of California.

John Willoughby – July 11, 2016 09:31PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Some places, fresh water falls from the sky. For free!

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