Spork Boards

Granberry's Parlor

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:46AM Reply Quote
Politics. Don Granberry on the old Spork Boards was quite fond of talking about them, and here we continue on in that fine tradition.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 09:56AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Most drug offenders will never see juries. There are usually sentencing minimums depending on how much of what substance they were caught with combined with how many times they have been caught. And I like how they leave themselves an out for where violence is alleged or intended. Well no fucking shit! The problem with drug crime is that so much of it is violent. A lot of those poor and desperate people use guns because they are so poor and desperate. Stick to making television jackasses.

tliet – March 07, 2008 10:01AM Reply Quote
Well, as with anything, it has good and bad sides. The described behaviour was probably intended when the system was devised. I doubt though if we see a lot of cases where this is true. Most of the times I think we're dealing with completely ignorant people who are to be influenced pretty easy.

rino – March 07, 2008 10:27AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.

Yeah sure, the masses are completely ignorant and wouldn't the world be so nice if they were all like you!?

stan adams – March 07, 2008 11:00AM Reply Quote
You'd be surprised, tliet, really. Basically every litigator I know has some "fear" of juries, because they are lot more unpredictable -- some times they'll respond emotionally, other times seizing upon a piece of minor evidence, and some times being very demanding of both prosecution and defense, though I've never heard them called ignorant or too easily swayed. The most common complaint I've heard is that juries rarely look at the broader implication of their decision, though realistically precedent is really set by the appellate courts and that tends to limit juries having too wide an influence.

Rarely do simple possession cases result in a jury trial. There are almost always broader issues of violence and/or corruption at work-- many so called "non-violent" drug offenders are/were gang bangers smart enough not to shoot the cops that busted them with saleable quantities of drugs. Juries have no problem tossing these guys in the klink as the folks on juries know these dudes are bad for communities. Prison becomes a place where these thugs grow more violent and see the rewards of their failure to testify against the gang leaders. Thus the cycle is perpetuated.

In the longer view running drugs are not that individually profitable, with average incomes of even the biggest gang banging drug kingpins being far below that of major chiefs of police and in many cases not much different than even senior street cops. The sad reality though is MANY cops will have taken more than a little "look the other way" money to muddy up some/break evidence chains. Minior corruption leads to lots of minor "players" being involved in the drug trade. Some would argue that the Mafia was too hierarchical -- it gave foot soldiers incentive to move up or rat out. Street gangs are "flatter" more like a Linux development effort -- no big winners, lots of bums barely able to move out of momma's basement...

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 11:05AM by stan adams.

El Jeffe – March 07, 2008 12:30PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
they just found 6,700 pounds of weed, in bales, at a guy's house here.

What a journey.

tomierna (Admin) – March 07, 2008 01:02PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
Personal use.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 01:12PM Reply Quote
toe dilly

tliet – March 07, 2008 01:20PM Reply Quote
rino, I tend to think I would fall in the same category when it comes to trials.

rino – March 07, 2008 03:45PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I sure smiled at that "personal use" -- hehe.

Just heard a story about a trucker's secret compartment. He got caught coming over the border from CA into Maine.

A little larger than that actually. In the trailer full of wood chips a secret compartment was built and covered in the wood chips. It contained many large bags of pot bound for a "customer" in Mass.

Our government always wants more money, it really should be legalized.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 04:04PM Reply Quote
The libertarian in me says "absolutely" but the realist in me says "look at the FUCKING ASSHOLES that still smoke cigarettes". I mean for god sakes in my states (and dozens of others) there is no place indoors where you can smoke except for some walk-in ashtray of "club". Yet there still FUCKWADS that that stand 15 feet plus one inch from the door of restaurant, office building, what have you and BLOW THEIR TOXIC CLOUD out without regard to the people that MUST walk around these chimneys of doom.

Somehow I think the pot heads MIGHT be a bit more mellow, but if they're not we are in for a world of hurt.

While I don't give much credence to pot being a gateway drug, I do think that once the stoner lobby scores a win there WOULD BE enormous incentives for the LEGAL SELLERS of pot (probably some highly regulated hybirds of the old tobacco companies and drug makers) to lobby for a whole range of currently illegal drugs. Don't like smoke? Well PhillipMorris-Pfizer would be only too happy to set you up with some Bolivian marching powder that will do wonders for your weight problem and more for your sex life than Viagra. Not thrilled with the hard edge of coming down from that, then how about taking the edge off with some oxycotin? Like something more colorful, you know PCP has gotten a bad wrap -- as long as you keep the car keys hanging it makes for a helluva weekend...

Be careful what you wish for...

tomierna (Admin) – March 07, 2008 05:14PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
I'm in Amsterdam right now.

This is a country where many smoke cigarettes and there's an indoor restaurant smoking ban coming down the pipe.

This is also a country where it's legal to smoke the devil's weed.

Walking around last night and this morning, I didn't see people smoking it or smell one bit of the stuff.

Granted, I wasn't walking around in the red light district, but legalization of marijuana here doesn't seem (to these non-native eyes that have only been here a grand total of seven days across two trips) to have made it a terribly visible drug. You can't really draw a parallel to public consumtion of cigarettes because the users of nicotine get angry when they are without it. You can't draw a parallel between public marijuana consumption and public drinking, because with too much drinking, people tend to get crazy, rowdy, and many times angry.

And Stan, the pharma drug companies have been historically willing to stretch the bounds of marketing for legal drugs, but the drugs you mentioned have been used recreationally for at least as long as they've been on the market, some even longer than they've been used pharmaceutically (coke, oxy [as opium/heroin]).

The thing about recreational drugs is you don't have to market them.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 05:26PM Reply Quote
Amsterdam is filled with polite people that have never really been influenced by marketing. America is filled with Americans. "Nuff said.

El Jeffe – March 07, 2008 06:45PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
America is LESS FILLED with Americans now, Stan.

What a journey.

rino – March 08, 2008 09:44AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
> Amsterdam is filled with polite people that have never really been influenced by marketing. America is filled with Americans. "Nuff said.

Nah, not influenced by marketing at all.

ROFLatyou -- did you check out that video link Bill posted? All those Amsterdam women running in heels for Glamour magazine? Yeah, much more sophisticated and nuanced a civilization. Hell, they'll fight for scraps of meat too. I call bullshit.

On my many trips to and through Amsterdam while in Germany I think I smelled it once publicly. And I went into the Mellow Yellow Cafe but only ordered a cappuccino -- I was after all in the army and did not want to taint my blood.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/08/2008 09:46AM by rino.

El Jeffe – March 08, 2008 11:03AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
again, what happens, or what legal or such implications are there, if a person travels to a country where certain drugs are LEGAL but yet returns here and a drug test (for whatever reason) indicates/finds said drugs?

I would hope that partaking of them in a legal manner would trump them finding the remnants in hair/blood, etc.

Are LEOs restricted from taking drugs for instance in countries where it is legal? I mean, they could at least learn about the effects IN those countries, legally, w/o doing it here illegally.

What a journey.

tomierna (Admin) – March 09, 2008 01:44PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
Drug tests aren't mandated by law in the US, they are mandated by employers, and it's legal to fire people if they go against your workplace policies. LEOs, for instance, likely have to abide by strict no-drug policies, so if they tested positive upon return from a legal expedition, they'd be fired under policy.

As far as I know, it's not illegal to have taken most drugs, just to possess them - which makes consuming them a bit difficult.

That said, there's a bunch of grey area with reciprocity laws and binding of laws to citizenship, instead of current location. The latter being one way to circumvent pedophiles from engaging in sex with people who would be minors in the US in places where the age of consent is much lower.

El Jeffe – March 09, 2008 03:37PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I would like to know civil and criminal precedents of people who took drugs legally in other countries and found themselves in hot water over here. I personally would side with it being perfectly acceptable, legal, and a civil non-issue.

What a journey.

Dr. Strangelove – March 09, 2008 07:19PM Reply Quote
At least we're not Dubai:

Keith Andrew Brown, a client of FTI, was recently sentenced to four years in prison after 0.003g of cannabis was found in the tread of his shoe by customs officials in Dubai during transit from Ethiopia to London. FTI said such a tiny amount would not be visible to the naked eye, and would weigh less than a single grain of sugar.

In another case, a Swiss national is currently serving four years after three poppy seeds were found on his clothes by customs officials at Dubai airport. He had bought and eaten a bread roll at Heathrow before flying to UAE, FTI said.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 09, 2008 07:20PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
One of the many reasons I'm glad I work for a small company is that I'll never be asked to take a drug test. I'd refuse even though I haven't taken any drugs since the early 90's. If not even then for anyone monitoring this. I just am unwilling to put up with that invasion of privacy.

ARL (Moderator) – March 09, 2008 07:37PM Reply Quote
Hear hear, FLL.

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