Spork Boards

Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:43AM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

tliet – January 03, 2019 08:09AM Reply Quote
The Murdoch Misinformation Machine is at it again; https://www.foxnews.com/politics/socialism-rising-dems-take-house-pushing-massive-government-expansion-as-party-lurches-left

It's quite baffling to read this "

The growing socialist wing of the Democratic Party will flex its muscle Thursday with the seating of the new Congress, as more self-described Democratic Socialists join the ranks and dozens of sitting and incoming members – including likely 2020 hopefuls – embrace a massive government expansion that would make FDR look like a penny pincher.

The 2017 tax break added $2.289 trillion to the US national debt, I'm quite curious what US based Sporkers have noticed themselves from the tax break?

ddt – January 03, 2019 08:50AM Reply Quote
Actually going to have a higher tax load, in part due to the nominally evangelical-driven Republican congress changing the law so that a lot of charitable donations are no longer deductible.


John Willoughby – January 03, 2019 11:07AM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
My taxes won't change much until 2020, when all of the new laws kick in. (The GOP wanted to make sure that their base didn't associate the full savagery of the new rates with the Trump/Ryan tax plan.) At that point, I expect significantly higher taxes until the guillotines are set up.

dharlow – January 03, 2019 11:12AM Reply Quote
Higher here too, thanks to the SALT removal.

ddt – January 03, 2019 12:25PM Reply Quote
Funny how the SALT changes hit hardest the states that most funded things like education and infrastructure (co-inky-dink that those are blue states, I'm sure).


John Willoughby – January 04, 2019 04:48PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
So, Trump is thinking of declaring a national emergency to fund his wall without Congress.

He says that he can take the land needed with a "military version of eminent domain." I don't think that the military has its own version of eminent domain, unless you count seizure by force.

I saw a commenter refer to Trump as, "Mango Unchained." I like the moniker for him.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/04/2019 04:50PM by John Willoughby.

johnny k – January 04, 2019 06:33PM Reply Quote
Am I crazy in thinking that the Democrats are opposing The Wall mostly because Trump has made it a racist symbol? Can't say it's because it's wasteful. $5 billion is 1% of the military budget, and it's not like we haven't seen larger pork projects (F-35, Big Dig) from both sides of the aisle. Can't say it's because it's ineffective. There have been plenty of barrier solutions presented as part of multi-faceted immigration bills.

Cloudscout – January 04, 2019 06:50PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
The cost is bogus. It will have cost overruns. I would be shocked if the final bill came in under $15 billion... most of which will just line the pockets of red-hat friends.
There will be environmental impacts.
Efficacy is questionable.

The main reason he wants the wall isn't for any practical benefit to the country. Pharaoh wants a monument.

tliet – January 05, 2019 12:43AM Reply Quote
Why didn't he get it done when his new R friends were calling the shots in all branches of government? I mean, the guy's been there for 2 years now, between trying to kill every effective environmental law, knifing Obamacare and giving out sweet handouts to billionaires they could have found the time to stick putting up a new Berlin/Chinese/Israel wall in some bill?

ARL (Moderator) – January 05, 2019 08:47AM Reply Quote
Wasn’t Mexico paying for it?

johnny k – January 05, 2019 04:37PM Reply Quote
I agree that what many find reflexively offensive is that it's clear he wants a Great Wall of Trump.
But you're missing the question. Why is the Democratic party opposing the wall? Do they really care that much about cost or efficacy? Many of them voted for fence funding. They would compromise with wall + DACA solution, but the president keeps pulling back on that. I suppose the political fact that it's a symbol for both sides is what's doing it.

tliet – January 05, 2019 05:40PM Reply Quote
Could not help but think of Trump when my wife was watching the Hobbit today: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkPnGqUjF1Q

John Willoughby – January 05, 2019 05:54PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
Pharaoh wants a monument.

Given that it will be founded on racism and xenophobia, over-priced, ineffective, bad for the environment, and against the will of the majority of the American public, it would be a very appropriate monument to him.

Cloudscout – January 05, 2019 10:39PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
And it will likely be built using slave prison labor.

Mokers (Moderator) – January 06, 2019 12:02AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
johnny, I think those are fair questions if you are talking about good faith negotiations. There is nothing to say the president won't ask for 10 billion in 3 months. I think the only way Trump gets money for a wall is if he signs off on the dreamers. They thought they had a deal like that last year, but Trump nixed it at the last moment.

like you said, the wall would be just another military-inudstrial complex slush fund, so whatever. However, apprehensions are already at near record lows. At this point paying giving that 5 billion to the Mexicans to house asylum seekers is probably a more effective tool. It's also not effective at keeping drugs out and terrorists usually arrive by plane with passports from our allies. the wall is all Trump's ego at this point.

tliet – January 06, 2019 12:48AM Reply Quote
It's not only Trumps ego, his political survival hinges on it. It was only after Coulter threatened to withdraw her support for Trump if he agreed to a compromise that he did a 180. Pelosi and Schumer need to thread carefully here, imho it'd be better to constantly hammer home the message that they want to reopen government, instead of saying that they don't want to build the wall. If they approach this right, Trump has effectively committed political suicide by taking the position that he's taken.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/06/2019 12:51AM by tliet.

ddt – January 06, 2019 11:09AM Reply Quote
And what is "the wall"? Is there an actual plan, land laid out, a path, impact reports, and so on, from the White House? Even if these were good-faith negotiations on that side (very good point, Mokers), what is there to discuss?

Especially given admissions from advisors that "the wall" was really a placeholder given to candidate Trump so that he'd remember to talk about immigration policy, "the wall" seems more and more like a reification and dogwhistle.(Look at how opposition to "the wall" has been categorized as "open borders", which just about literally nobody is advocating).

The Democrats and Republicans have long worked on border security and have drawn up plans, allocated funds, built regulations and staffed programs. And part of border security is keeping the people approaching borders safe and secure, too. Not to mention that most human and drug and gang trafficking comes in via airports, sea ports, and not via foot through Mexico.

But if you ask the people shouting about "the wall" and "Mexico will pay for it" at rallies -- what do you think it means to them, and why do you think they want some sort of barrier? Their cheering is what drives Trump.

So, with that in mind, what would the Democrats supporting realistic, fact-based border security look like?


ddt – January 06, 2019 11:56AM Reply Quote
(dpbd) on the topic of "there's no plan", I'd love to see the reaction of Warren or AOC demanded US$5B for "education" or "health care" with the same level of specifics as we have for "the wall".

What do you think the reaction would be?


ARL (Moderator) – January 07, 2019 10:13PM Reply Quote
Communism shouted repeatedly in all caps?

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/07/2019 10:13PM by ARL.

John Willoughby – January 07, 2019 11:52PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
It'll be the same thing it always is: "American health care is the best in the world." Just keep saying that, and you'll never have to divert money from a bloated military to keep your people from dying.

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