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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:43AM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 01:02PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
If he doesn't get the Dem nod, he should run on his own.

What a journey.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 01:04PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
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Dr. Strangelove
But Mokers, what should he do, in your view? Unless you have a suggestion, your criticism that he's all talk and no action seems like, well, just talk.

The whole point of these boards is talk and no action. I'm not asking you to elect me to change America. I am not saying I am the one to fix what is wrong with the government. What would I like to see Obama do? Well, he could letBill Cosby sort out this mess and I would bw happy. Basically, he should stop playing into victim politics and really move the debate forward, past "I am where I am because everybody else is against me" to "I can be better, and I won't blame the government or anybody else if I don't make it".

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 01:13PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I'd vote for you Moke

What a journey.

morganti – March 19, 2008 01:43PM Reply Quote
I have to eat some crow. The media is NOT contrary to popular opinion "giving McCain a pass". It was ridiculous of me to claim that was the case.

TODD: -- this was not a one-time slip and so, you know, this just shows you how much bank -- how much of the foreign policy experience stuff he's got in the bank, because had Clinton or Obama done something like this, this would have been played on a loop, over and over, and would have absolutely hurt them politically.

He's an experienced maverick who has so much foreign policy experience in the bank that he can be as stupid, retarded, or ignorant as he wishes to be, and we're still going to think he's got serious foreign policy credentials.

Morg "and anyone who doesn't agree probably just hates the troops, and former prisoners of war, irrationally." anti

rino – March 19, 2008 02:20PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I don't see it as Obama playing into victim politics at all ... interesting. He admittedly comes from privilege.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 02:51PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
I think he's playing into the victim politics of his pastor. I guess I wish he would have thrown him under the bus a little bit more, instead of rationalizing part of it by saying we need to create more dialogue (and, of course, elect Obama).

Dr. Strangelove – March 19, 2008 03:03PM Reply Quote
I agree with rino, didn't see any victim politics there. Actually, the really nice thing about the speech is that it's a very polite "Fuck you" to people on both sides of this "issue", but especially to those who want to use this issue against Obama.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 03:08PM by Dr. Strangelove.

SoupIsGood Food – March 19, 2008 04:21PM Reply Quote
He couldn't throw his pastor under the bus, for the same reason he can't throw his grandma under the bus. I've got two crazy Republican uncles who are deep-to-the-bone racist. They're working-class, and have had some hard breaks in their life, and blaming black people or mexicans for their troubles is easier than owning up to their own shortcomings. I can't simply disown them... they're family, they're community, and my other relatives would be pissed that I made such a stink. I can't wish them away, and I don't want to. That side of them isn't the only side of them.

Racial divides and racial tensions exist, and they exist in people we love and associate with daily. You can't turn your back on those people, because you'll run out of back before you run out of people. You need to engage with them and understand where they are coming from... which isn't the same as condoning or agreeing with them.

That was the whole point of the speech with regards to the former Rev. Wright, and I'm very sorry if you missed it, as it was a stunning moment in American history.

~ Soop



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 04:22PM by SoupIsGood Food.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 04:48PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
My grandfather was a racist son of a bitch, but he was nice to his family and he was part of MY family. He died when I was still a kid, but I can remember his talking about the damn jews and the damn n-words (sorry, I'm too white and too liberal to actually use the word). I've never really been able to process the racist part of him with the other parts. It's something many of have had to deal with. Do you cut a person completely out of your life/family because they hold some hateful opinions? Hell if I know.

stan adams – March 19, 2008 05:03PM Reply Quote
Quote
Dr. Strangelove
I agree with rino, didn't see any victim politics there. Actually, the really nice thing about the speech is that it's a very polite "Fuck you" to people on both sides of this "issue", but especially to those who want to use this issue against Obama.

Not to pick on the good doctor, but I hope you are not going into the Joe Biden territory of "he's bright and articulate and clean" ...

In all honestly I agree that Obama did very politely suggest that the stuff used against was BS -- I sorta think that was a big reason that Collin Powell didn't run for office -- there are LOTS of little stories of him telling people to literally "shove it", and Powell knew that would not be looked on well coming from a minority. Powell would be in a lot different place if it weren't for 911 and his frustration inside the administration: http://www.truthout.org/docs_03/060403B.shtml

Don't make the mistake of assuming Powell thought the whole thing was a lie, rather he learned well how to smile in public then work the levers behind the scenes. But the very thing that got him thisclose to the top of government also meant that LOTS of people knew that Powell was/is more like a traditional cuss-out-everyone-insider than some sort of "rock star". Obama, OTOH, has not been around long enough for people to come pouring out of the wood work with stories of him being "just like all the other assholes".

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1282/is_23_56/ai_n13648312/print

Mokers (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 05:18PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
A monumental moment in American history? I guess if you say so. And I think understand the points of the speech very much, since I do live it every day. Well, sorry if I am supposed to believe that it will take something other than Obama being elected to end these problems. If you guys are fine with Obama making excuses for Wright, I guess that is fine by me. I won't make excuses for Wright or anybody else like him.

Edit: I am clearly getting too worked up. I think it's stupid because I think that Obama will win the nomination and in November. I'm not sure why I am getting shot down here. I think I'll put myself on a 8-month hiatus.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 05:34PM by Mokers.

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 05:45PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
You know a Powell Obama ticket would have a lot of interest.

What a journey.

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 05:49PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
NBC just played THREE of McCain's Al Queda mentions. I think it's a NOTHING issue.

McCain looks to be slimming up. Getting in fighting shape. Not obamarexic, though. I don't know if John smokes like a chimney or not.

What a journey.

John Willoughby – March 19, 2008 06:16PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I tolerate the Windows users in my family. Barely.

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 06:17PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
very profane minister about Obama

http://youtube.com/watch?v=khuu-RhOBDU

What a journey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/19/2008 06:19PM by El Jeffe.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 06:30PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Quote
Mokers
A monumental moment in American history? I guess if you say so. And I think understand the points of the speech very much, since I do live it every day. Well, sorry if I am supposed to believe that it will take something other than Obama being elected to end these problems. If you guys are fine with Obama making excuses for Wright, I guess that is fine by me. I won't make excuses for Wright or anybody else like him.

Edit: I am clearly getting too worked up. I think it's stupid because I think that Obama will win the nomination and in November. I'm not sure why I am getting shot down here. I think I'll put myself on a 8-month hiatus.

I didn't hear him making excuses. He said
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I have already condemned, in unequivocal terms, the statements of Reverend Wright that have caused such controversy.
and
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they expressed a profoundly distorted view of this country
and
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Reverend Wright's comments were not only wrong but divisive, divisive at a time when we need unity; racially charged at a time when we need to come together

But if you you feel we are attacking you, sorry. Just debating. I thought it was a good discussion. I have nothing but respect for your views.

rino – March 19, 2008 07:26PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Mokers please don't go away ... agreed with Phred, I just saw it differently and am still considering your first statement.

Your second statement makes a lot of sense to me, why didn't he play a little heavier of a hand to the wacko preacher?
Then again, I certainly agree about not being able to throw him under the bus. My step-father who brought stability into my life was a racist SOB. I challenged him to a point and then put up with it ... he has changed his tone quite a bit since.

I get incensed by stuff like Wright's talk, true for any overtly hateful and plain wrong talk.

ARL (Moderator) – March 19, 2008 08:01PM Reply Quote
Nice article.

At least this hoopla will derail the "Obama is a secret Mooslim" crap for a while.

Mokers has a valid point about about role-models and parenting etc. etc. and that the state is a poor substitute for the lack of this. That Bill Cosby speech was a good read.

Um, the only point that I'll make is that while I would have liked to see Obama (and others) mention that some amount of personal responsibilty is needed too, he wasn't claiming he had a magic wand either.

(AAARRRGGGHHH! THIS IS A QUOTE BELOW BUT PHORUM ISN'T BLOODY FORMATTING IT)

Quote

Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze - a corporate culture rife with inside dealing, questionable accounting practices, and short-term greed; a Washington dominated by lobbyists and special interests; economic policies that favour the few over the many. And yet, to wish away the resentments of white Americans, to label them as misguided or even racist, without recognising they are grounded in legitimate concerns - this too widens the racial divide.

This is where we are now. It's a racial stalemate we've been stuck in for years. Contrary to the claims of some of my critics, black and white, I have never been so naive as to believe that we can get beyond our racial divisions in a single election cycle, or with a single candidacy.

(AAAARRRGGGHHH!!! END OF QUOTE THAT PHORUM WONM'T BLOODY WElL FORMAT -- JUST PRETEND IT'S IN ITALICS AND BOLD IN PARTS...)



Edited 4 time(s). Last edit at 03/20/2008 12:00AM by tomierna.

El Jeffe – March 19, 2008 08:09PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
yeah, what IS the deal with the QUOTE function!!!!

What a journey.

tomierna (Admin) – March 19, 2008 10:22PM Reply Quote
Hideously Unnatural
Quote
El Jeffe
yeah, what IS the deal with the QUOTE function!!!!

What is the deal?

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