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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:43AM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

El Jeffe – March 17, 2008 11:23AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Interesting analogy, Moke

What a journey.

ddt – March 17, 2008 11:46AM Reply Quote
this is how memes like "obama is a secret moooslim" start.

that said, i'm now curious about the fact-checking policy for columnists. god knows all those tech-savvy cabbies friedman always seems to run into are already suspect.

ddt

El Jeffe – March 17, 2008 01:24PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
The arguments I've heard is he attended a Madrasa. and once a muslim always a muslim.

What a journey.

ddt – March 17, 2008 01:29PM Reply Quote
you're joking, right? so if bin laden had testified for christ in high school, he'd still be considered a christian?

and of course you know that not all madrasas are radical, and not all require all students to be muslim, much as catholic schools in the states do not require the kids to be catholic.

ddt

ddt – March 17, 2008 01:30PM Reply Quote
dpbd: as for obama's middle name, i should say that i have a friend named huseyn. he's turkish, not muslim; the only thing i think he's fanatical about is bicycles. he can talk your ear off for an hour about carbon frame layups.

ddt

El Jeffe – March 17, 2008 01:55PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
No. Why would I joke?
Have you never heard that saying?
I don't hear it HERE (in person/real-life), but sure read it online.
I don't particularly care one way or another personally; nor do I care to talk about it in RL, either. He could be a satanist or christian, but the only thing that matters is he's not a conservative republican, to me.

What a journey.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 17, 2008 03:24PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Funny. Me too. But for different reasons.

El Jeffe – March 17, 2008 04:05PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
two sides make a coin.

What a journey.

Robert Taylor – March 17, 2008 06:24PM Reply Quote
Quote

you're joking, right? so if bin laden had testified for christ in high school, he'd still be considered a christian?

You're expecting people to do things like realize inherent contradictions in conspiracy theory. Unfortunately, I've dealt with too many wingnuts to have faith that they are self-aware enough to realize you can't believe 6 impossible and mutually contradictory things at the same time. So, yes, there will be people who believe that a) Obama is a SCARY MUSLIM and b) Obama is a SCARY BLACK NATIONALIST CHRISTIAN.

See: any number of wingnut black helicopter/Bill Clinton killed Vince Foster/9-11 was fake bullshit. Or people who believe the Earth was created in 4004 BC. Or that Saddam Hussein was behind 9/11.

(Note that I'm not saying The Poster Formerly Known As Bill Smith is asserting this. Just that there will be people who believe this.)

rino – March 17, 2008 10:12PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
And you get hairy palms from masturbation.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/17/2008 10:13PM by rino.

johnny k – March 18, 2008 12:54AM Reply Quote
After reading about the racism in Chicago's 1983(!) mayoral race, hearing Olbermann's comment to Hillary Clinton - it's a "suicide pact" for Democrats to allow her proxies to drag Obama down by preying on latent fears - and now the media blowing up what his preacher said (and out of context), I'm depressed. I gotta stop reading comments in stories! It's going to get a lot worse, but will end up for the better, I believe. This speech tomorrow should be interesting.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 18, 2008 08:17AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Well, it would be nice if guilt by association was not a staple of politics, but again, it is a fact of life. You have to watch who is giving you money, and if you are going to call somebody a biblical scholar and say you knew them for 20 years and you constantly lean on this person for advice, that information is going to be vetted. I am not sure how much context you will be able to add if the church is unwilling to give up videos that they have or full text of sermons. So, I do believe it is up to them to provide context. I don't particularly think that sitting in church is going to make you a slave to the sermons, but really, the pastor represents what I consider some very backward-thinking victim politics. Obama has won because he wants to bring people together, blah, blah, blah, etc. You would think that if he cared about bringing people together, he or his people would have been smart enough to distance himself from this guy, if only for appearances.

rino – March 18, 2008 08:29AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
I heard the full sermons are available for sale on the church web site.

Today Obama gives major speech on this matter.

morganti – March 18, 2008 09:09AM Reply Quote
Mokers - Well, it would be nice if guilt by association was not a staple of politics, but again, it is a fact of life. You have to watch who is giving you money, and if you are going to call somebody a biblical scholar and say you knew them for 20 years and you constantly lean on this person for advice, that information is going to be vetted. I am not sure how much context you will be able to add if the church is unwilling to give up videos that they have or full text of sermons.

Well, it would be nice if guilt by association were applied to both sides equally. How many hundred times have people on the left mentioned the McCain-Hagee Connection. And this isn't a guy that just happened to endorse him (ala Farakkan), this is a guy who's support McCain proudly brags about.

Just a few weeks ago, McCain said
I don't have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy. They are supporting my candidacy. I am not endorsing some of their positions. . . .

And I am very proud of the Pastor John Hagee's spiritual leadership to thousands of people and I am proud of his commitment to the independence and the freedom of the state of Israel. That does not mean that I support or endorse or agree with some of the things that Pastor John Hagee might have said or positions that he may have taken on other issues.


My point, as made above,
The fact that McCain thinks he can get away with openly embracing one of the most influential and hateful bigots in the country is a reflection of the profound media double standard he knows favors and protects him. Just imagine if Obama had issued a statement similar to McCain's with regard to Farrakhan: "I am very proud of Minister Louis Farrakhan's spiritual leadership to thousands of people" and "don't have to agree with everyone who endorses my candidacy. I'm still 'honored" to have his support."

Mokers - So, I do believe it is up to them to provide context. I don't particularly think that sitting in church is going to make you a slave to the sermons, but really, the pastor represents what I consider some very backward-thinking victim politics. Obama has won because he wants to bring people together, blah, blah, blah, etc. You would think that if he cared about bringing people together, he or his people would have been smart enough to distance himself from this guy, if only for appearances.

So I do believe its up to them to provide context. That context being that Obama is being held to a different standard than McCain. Will they show that context? Hell no. THEY are the ones with the double standards. McCain is the Straight Talker! He's the Maverick! He's the manly man that had such large testicles that he survived in a SE Asian Prison despite torture! How can you not just LOVE this man? I mean, yeah, so he flipflopped a few times. And yeah, he wants us to stay in Iraq for 50, or 100 or 200 years.... or something. Big whoopy. And so what if he's old... he's got LARGE MANLY TESTICLES and once actually WENT AGAINST HIS OWN PARTY! How can you NOT let this guy slide on a little itty bitty endorsement from a hate mongering bigot that wants Israel to get ready for the rapture, and thinks Catholics are whores. Like thats a big deal or something.

The fact is that McCain is getting an easy ride.

Deep Thought: So, Obama is going to spend the next 9 months explaining every bad, wrong, stupid, self-destructive, immoral thing that all the other black people in the US do. Im sure that McCain is going to have to answer for every bad, wrong, stupid, self-destructive, immoral thing that all the white folks do right???

Morg "Yeah, I thought so." anti

El Jeffe – March 18, 2008 09:10AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
They are saving the whole McCain thing for the general election. don't give him time to recover from whatever attacks will be flung that way.

What a journey.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 18, 2008 09:56AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Morg,

To say this is about an endorsement is being disingenuous. If McCain had written in his biography about Hagee (and admitted Hagee's words inspired the title), maybe he would be held to the same standard. If Hagee had been at McCain's wedding, maybe there would be a different standard. If Hagee had baptized McCain's kids, maybe there would be a different standard. If McCain was a member of Hagee's congregation, maybe there would be a different standard. If McCain had called him a mentor and great biblical scholar, there would be a different standard. This is bout a little more than an endorsement. Besides, if you want to see how guilt by association works for the big bad white man, have a few words with Mitt Romney.

And I don't think this will cost him his candidacy, but really, Obama has to distance himself from this guy, especially if he wants to go about preaching unity, and how words have power to bring people together, etc. etc. If Obama had a political life outside of Chicago or Illinois a while longer, he would already have dealt with this and it would not be a big deal any longer. McCain's life has been dissected in national politics for years as well as a presidential race not too long ago. Therefore, he is a much more known quantity. If this was Obama's second presidential campaign after 20 years in the Senate, this is not even a blip on the radar.

BTW, I am not a McCain supporter, have stated I don't believe he is a good candidate, and that he will lose. I have stated before it will take a complete meltdown for the Democrat party to lose, and that melt down hasn't happened yet. As long as the economy doesn't create too many jobs before September, you guys will be OK! Really!

stan adams – March 18, 2008 10:04AM Reply Quote
El Jeffe has one point (sorta) that I agree with -- the media eats up what it is fed and then feeds us whatever regurgitated crap they sense the public will tolerate.

SOMEONE fed them the TAPE of Pastor Wright. Maybe that was someone in the Clinton camp, the McCain camp or just somebody who went looking for something not to like about Obama. Personally, I have had to sit through 'events' not all that different than the show that Pastor Wright puts on -- if is standard fare in MANY 'religously based' gatherings in the African-American community. My take is the Barak loves his wife and his kids and he knows that Pastor Wright runs an organization that his wife and her family seems to be part of their Chicago tradition. He can't really say THAT and not seem like a big ol' faker, but do you really thing that a dude that grew up in Hawaii to a college prof type mom and was raised by white grandparents from Kansas and went to Harvard and was a big time lawyer and lectured at UofC is "into" any of that trash???

I'd say the same thing about HIllary when she does here "drop the final g" thin' about workin' and prayin' and y'all know that is really how a Goldwater girl from Park Ridge Illinois really talks...

And fer crying out loud McCain HAS TO say the same shit. He ain't going to say "there is no God, unless 'god' is the absence of evil, because believe me, there is evil -- I did some evil shit dropping bombs on villages made of grass, Pol Pot did some evil shit crushing the skulls of millions of people whose only offense was literacy, and I know for sure that the gooks that shoved drain pipes up my ass and busted my shoulder sockets were mighty evil mother fuckers..." .

Not that would be one helluva of a YouTube video...

I gotta think that if Obama can 'splain his way out of Pastor Wright w/o making the old ladies with big silly church hats think he is a liar he ought to have NO PROBLEM getting Shiites & Sunnis to believe him...

Similarly if Hillary can beat down Obama into the VP slot she ought to have no problem getting Iran to leave the nukes alone...

And if McCain can deal with the kitchen sink that is going to be thrown his way come the time the Dems decide on who REALLY will head up their ticket it ought to be a snap for him to lead the US back to economic superiority with the easy smile of a Ronald Reagan...

Don't cha just love the whole campaign process?

stan adams – March 18, 2008 11:51AM Reply Quote
DPBD:

It thought he might go more "aw shucks" or maybe a "Checkers" speach (well, you know, my daughters love that little Pastor Wright and I am not going to break their little hearts...) but instead the man goes more for the Gettysburg Address:

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/03/18/us/politics/18text-obama.html?ei=5087&em=&en=06a539b9d149224f&ex=1205985600&pagewanted=all

It could work...

Dr. Strangelove – March 18, 2008 12:20PM Reply Quote
I didn't see the speech, but reading through it, seems like a home run to me. (I'm the choir, though, I know---if you allow me to mix metaphors.)

In other news:

Speaking to reporters in Amman, the Jordanian capital, McCain said he and two Senate colleagues traveling with him continue to be concerned about Iranian operatives "taking al-Qaeda into Iran, training them and sending them back."

Pressed to elaborate, McCain said it was "common knowledge and has been reported in the media that al-Qaeda is going back into Iran and receiving training and are coming back into Iraq from Iran, that's well known. And it's unfortunate." A few moments later, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, standing just behind McCain, stepped forward and whispered in the presidential candidate's ear. McCain then said: "I'm sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al-Qaeda."


And foreign politics are supposed to be his strength!

stan adams – March 18, 2008 12:49PM Reply Quote
Quote
from above
few moments later, Sen. Joseph Lieberman, standing just behind McCain, stepped forward and whispered in the presidential candidate's ear. McCain then said: "I'm sorry, the Iranians are training extremists, not al-Qaeda."

More like Reagan everyday...

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