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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:43AM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

tliet – January 30, 2008 04:32AM Reply Quote
rino, a lot of things that Ron Paul stands for don't appeal to me, that said however, he seems the only candidate that really grasps at least some of the root causes of the problems today.

Too bad that's lost on the general public who hardly get to see a glimpse of him in the MSM, because despite his age, it's refreshing to listen to him.

Mokers (Moderator) – January 30, 2008 11:34AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
I had no idea that McCain would be able to rise from the dead. Still, at least I was right with Edwards, not that it took much ingenuity.

El Jeffe – January 30, 2008 11:38AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
In the LAND of the dead (FL), he's king.

What a journey.

ddt – January 30, 2008 11:39AM Reply Quote
ton, don't get lured in by ron paul. check orcinus for paul's long history with white supremecists.


El Jeffe – January 30, 2008 11:52AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
How much time was devoted to Senator Byrd's (Democrat) KKK membership?
(equal time fairness doctrine invocation)


Participation in the Ku Klux Klan
In 1942, 24-year-old Byrd joined the Ku Klux Klan (KKK), whose parades in Matoaka, West Virginia, he had witnessed in his childhood. He was unanimously elected Exalted Cyclops, or leader, of his local chapter.[[/quote]

I shall never fight in the armed forces with a Negro by my side


What a journey.

stan adams – January 30, 2008 11:56AM Reply Quote
I'm on the same page as Soup in regards to Rudy -- the way NYC is structured his executive experience there was more like being Governor almost anyplace else. He could've/should've played up the "effectiveness" thing & the "sane stance on social issues" & the "outsider for change". His campaign staff must have green cheese for brains. Apparently too many money people didn't get onboard, which is never a good sign. The ethics stuff with Bernie didn't help. I think his own personal health is probably an issue too.

I think Huck is running on fumes in terms of "war chest" while McCain is going to be ringing the cash register. Romney sounds like he might be making conciliatory motions in hopes of angling for VP or other nice slots within the broader GOP house of cards after this thing is over. He is more than capable of running in '12, '16, '20 -- whatever it takes if can just line up the right parking places.

Speaking of parking places, look at how Edwards stayed on ice for four years. Really surprised that the news wires have Johnny boy throwing in the towel -- I thought with his wife's health issues and all he'd stay in this thing until the convention, regardless of how few delegates he had. Make a nice speech, bury his wife and then come back strong with a new model next time around...

Me thinks that Hillary is already in "accountant mode" and is doing the math to see how a two-person races breaks down, her team might have thrown some goodies Edwards way AND told him he can even look cool by throwing his "press conference" support to Barak while doing nothing to steer delegates to Obama, unless he wants to end up in a park with a "suicide" note...

Finally, on the topic of "Dems inevitably taking the WH" I offer this article from the NYT -- http://www.nytimes.com/2008/01/28/washington/28bush.html?_r=1&oref=slogin&pagewanted=print

Given that the "vote with your wallet" theme has been the winner since just about forever, with very few exceptions, I can see why the Dems have, with the help of the press, been making the economy out to be some kind of waste land. That ain't really true. Of course to newspaper reporters, whose publishers have failed miserably to adapt to the post google world of advertising, it is easy to understand why they think the sky is falling. And TV anchors have known for decades that DISASTERS gets people glued to the set waiting to see fresh carnage while good news makes people go outside and smell the flowers. Sure housing is seeing its bubble deflate, but for the vast majority of people that didn't lie to qualify for mortgages that they really could not afford this doesn't really change things. In fact, for people of normal means the affordability index is improving. Lower rates and lower prices are good things as long as wages don't collapse.

Many traditional "old-line" US companies, from Caterpillar to Chevron to Ford are seeing their bottom line helped by their overseas investments and income -- these things have both short term pluses, as they derive significant revenue from these ventures, and long term pluses -- as they gain the ability to shift toward global trends. Overall this is a "win" for big business/free trade and a denouncement of the backwards thinking of protectionists/Marxist 'labor theorists/anti-business types. Could yet be a factor in any GOP vs Dem showdown coming in the next ten months of shifts. I personally find a lot of to feel good about in a world where Rahm Emanuel is plotting against Bush and for Obama. After Rahm left the Clinton's behind he made a ton of cash the "new fashioned way" in Wall Street/Venture Capital/M&A, same as Edwards, same as Gore. While they might public rail against the GOP and its "subservience to business intrests" -- this is populist pandering. They're all in the same "class".

I'm not a lone in this view -- the argument is basically is that the world has evolved to being driven by a need for bubbles -- the global economy "needs" to have such a thing, the next one is obviously the "eco/green ebnegy" bubble : http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/america-land-bubbles-next-pop/story.aspx?guid=%7B60CE4669%2D6814%2D4A48%2DA555%2DBE998EC6FC58%7D&dist=TNMostRead

ddt – January 30, 2008 11:58AM Reply Quote
sorry, bill, i was unaware that byrd was running for president or was currently involved with the KKK. those are the only ways that comment can be relevant.

in any case: if edwards does drop out, as he's supposed to today, guess i'll vote for obama in cali. though edwards is still on the ballot... my goal would be to give edwards enough pull at the convention to influence the democratIC party's platform; edwards is the only guy talking about a lot of economic issues i think are important.


Dr. Strangelove – January 30, 2008 12:46PM Reply Quote
On Rudy: “His numbers were built on name recognition and celebrity,” this adviser said. “He had so many of his old friends around him, sometimes it was like he was running for president of Staten Island.”


ddt – January 30, 2008 01:06PM Reply Quote
sadly, the citizens of NYC really didn't like rudy all that much.


stan adams – January 30, 2008 01:50PM Reply Quote
Should it matter if he was "liked"? Before Rudy NYC was a disgrace. After a place that is/was far more livable for far more people. Sure there was a confluence of concern, cooperation, investment and serendipity, but those things did happen "on his watch". Some skill was involved. There was tension between Guiliani and other pols, both in NY and nationally, but there was respect and a set of goals that they shared. Even pols who claim they want "limited government" tend to believe that are certain things that ONLY government can do. Law & order is a HUGE part of that. One can debate over why NYC was so lawless before Rudy, but after there was a MARKED change for the better.

This country still has MANY urban and quasi urban areas that would benefit greatly from having more effective government -- the enforcement of laws is a huge factor in effectiveness.

The other thing that happens when people feel that a government is "working" is that they do not hesitate to make future oriented plans that are dependent on that government. From small, individual choices, like renting an apartment, to large far reaching choices, like expanding ones HQ in NYC instead of moving to the hinterlands of CT or some far flung area the Guiliani administration inspired people that NYC was in good hands. Were there moments that things were not all rose-colored? You bet -- police brutality was the most glaring example. But to suggest that there is no US city where such things do occur is just false -- in fact if one were to study the kinds of people attracted to careers in urban police forces it is shock that such things are as rare as they are...

The process of running for POTUS is harrowing, those can't survive probably didn't belong.

Robert Taylor – January 30, 2008 02:10PM Reply Quote
Me thinks that Hillary is already in "accountant mode" and is doing the math to see how a two-person races breaks down, her team might have thrown some goodies Edwards way AND told him he can even look cool by throwing his "press conference" support to Barak while doing nothing to steer delegates to Obama, unless he wants to end up in a park with a "suicide" note...

I see you've decided to take over for James on the insane right-wing bullshit front. Pretty nauseating.

Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 01/30/2008 02:11PM by Robert Taylor.

tliet – January 30, 2008 03:05PM Reply Quote
ddt, I agree about Ron Paul. There's a lot not to like about him, but in more than one way he actually sounds like a sane man, along with Edwards and I mean that in a positive way.

Ah well, whether you get bitten by the cat or the dog, in the end it feels the same doesn't it?

SoupIsGood Food – January 30, 2008 04:17PM Reply Quote
Edwards would have made a fantastic candidate... in '16. He torpedoed his political career by chasing after the White House at a point in his political life where he simply could not afford it. He should have hunkered down, entrenched his Senate seat as a Progressive Democratic stronghold in the Conservative South, and used it it to build political connections and win elections for fellow Dems throughout the region. By running off after the presidency so early, he alienated his constituency.

That in mind, I think his goal in running for the nomination this time around was to lay the foundation for another run at a congressional seat. It probably surprised him he did as well as he did -and it would be prudent to get out now before he gets embroiled in power-brokering come Convention time. He wants to be squeaky clean and glowing when Jim DeMint's up for re-election, with the entirety of the Democrats behind his bid.

Obama is a pretty significant part of Illinois political life, even before he ran for the Senate, and the mood of his state is that they're thrilled he's running. NYC could care less, and kind of enjoy having a name-brand import as Senator, and will likely vote for her again if she loses the nomination.

One of the great things about this primary season for the Democrats is that for the first time in a long time, they had three front runners they could really get excited about. You have Edwards, who ran on the issues, and really stood out as a persuasive, passionate force for progressive change. You have Clinton, who's experience, pragmatism and political connections make her seem invincible against anyone the GOP can throw at her. And then there's Obama - I really think he's the one. His oratory prowess, his clear and lucid positions on domestic issues and his grasp of America's interests abroad. It seems as if the stars are aligned, and everything is falling into place, and he gives the impression of being the right person at the right time.

So, yeah, the Democrats are generally thrilled with either frontrunner. The GOP? Not so much.

~ Soop

stan adams – January 30, 2008 04:31PM Reply Quote
I do think Hillary is in accounting mode, don't think she'll really kill Barak. Have no idea what happened to Vince Foster, actually find it amusing, in sort of a cheap spy novel sort of way to imagine "hit squads" controlled by the Senator/former First Lady.

Given the real over exuberance that there has been concerning elections (see Nixon/Colson/Hunt/Liddy/McCord) I don't think partisanship has as much to do with it as does cynicism...

I find the disrespect that most candidates have for the intelligence of voters rather nauseating.

El Jeffe – January 30, 2008 04:45PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
as long as two-faced, racist Democrat Senators are okay by you, I've got no problem with it, then, ddt. :)
If it's pres you want, I think the racist stuff at bama's church has been covered plenty.

What a journey.

stan adams – January 30, 2008 05:02PM Reply Quote
I don't think Obama has shown any thing to suspect that the views of his pastor are his. That is crazy talk.

Don't know why Soup thinks that Obama has been a significant part of IL politics before his Senate run. In fact his path to the State Senate was anything but "blessed". His tenure in the IL involved more of a elbowing in than any sort of ascendancy: http://www.chicagotribune.com/news/local/chi-070403obama-ballot,1,57567.story

Had it not been for the screw-ups of Carol Moseley Braun, which led to the alien Peter Fitzgerald and the comical opponent of Jack Ryan, Barak would likely have left politics for something more lucrative -- http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jack_Ryan_(Senate_candidate) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Carol_Moseley_Braun#Controversy

Steve Cordova – January 30, 2008 05:12PM Reply Quote
History passes the first time as tragedy, the second time as farts. - Roy Edroso
Two positions that should scare the bejeebus out of any Republican in any sort of Bush Administration office (maybe even more than the thought of President or VP Hillary Clinton):

AG Hillary Clinton
Supreme Court Justice Hillary Clinton

John Willoughby – January 30, 2008 09:48PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
I think it's funny that the same right-wing nut-jobs who screamed that Hillary had Vince Foster killed after their affair went bad also insisted that she's a lesbian. I guess that eventually we'll learn that Vince Foster was a woman.

Dave Loudin – January 31, 2008 08:19AM Reply Quote
Maybe when Scaife is on his deathbed we'll finally find out where all this crazy stuff came from.

stan adams – January 31, 2008 10:53AM Reply Quote
BTW -- fakesteve has been all over the "Hillary hate" think too, nobody calls him right wing -- http://fakesteve.blogspot.com/2008/01/al-gore-says-hes-terrified-for-obama.html

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