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Apple's relationship with the press, customers, and dealers

tliet's Avatar Picture tliet – March 20, 2008 05:34AM Reply Quote
Although we don't live in the Apple is beleaguered times anymore, there's still enough to be said about them...
Transplanted once again...

The Gay Blade - 05:54pm Mar 31, 2000 EST
The Blade will attempt to transplant yet another rhetorical sapling here
on the Spork boards by copping a page from the delightful Brian Miller,
writing eloquently on the superannuated boards of yesteryear:

Brian Miller - 03:07pm Sep 30, 1999 PT
The man with a plan

My recent PowerBook G3 fiasco notwithstanding, I am beginning to wonder if
Apple is planning on abandoning "small fry customers." Consider the
evidence:



1) Apple's war with the Macintosh press;
2) Apple's slashing and burning of small local dealers, who often provided
the best service "in a pinch";
3) Apple's continued horrendous customer service breaches (individual Apple
Store orders cancelled in favour of large educaction/business orders).

Pulling all this evidence together and analysing it makes me feel far more
"worried" about Apple's future than any time under Amelio. Consider, for
instance, what all of those resources spent on lawyers threatening tiny Mac
sites could do in customer service and relations.



Before we consider Apple's "invasion" into the Fortune 1000 enterprise to
be ready, we have to focus on Apple's status in its own current markets. In
my view, there's a lot of "retrenching" to do before they're ready. They
can start by ceasing their intimidation of Mac publishers, letting the damn
Mac rags publish OS 8.6 on their cover disks, and spending a bit more time,
effort, and energy on a "satisfy the customer at all costs throughout the
organisation" policy. These are all core competencies they'll need before
they can even THINK of invading the big-enterprise space.
[/quote]

ARL (Moderator) – February 22, 2016 05:52PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
Cloudscout
I don't see how that is true. If it's possible to execute a hack like this, what would prevent Russia and China from forcing Apple to do it regardless of whether the US does so?

As for ISIS, that makes no sense. How would ISIS force Apple to open devices for them?

Once Apple caves in and lets the US hack the iPhone for "national security reasons" dozens of other countries will demand the same (and with good reason). The precedent has been set.

The US and other countries will reassure people this will only be a last resort and the backdoor or whatever will be "kept secure". As secure as this Australian Govt Agency or this US Govt Agency.

And while ISIS has archaic beliefs that are at least a millennium out-of-date, that doesn't mean they don't have a pile of tech-savvy acolytes who will hack or bribe their way to get access to such a thing. It'll be like DVD Jon in that the genie can't be stuffed back in the bottle.

I think it's entirely plausible.



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/22/2016 07:53PM by ARL.

ARL (Moderator) – February 22, 2016 07:54PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
El Jeffe
Quote
ARL
Jeffe,

Say Apple cooperates.

Are you comfortable with Russia China and probably Isis also having this backdoor? That is what will happen.

I want NOTHING of the sort. What gave you that idea?
I am cheering Tim Cook on.
I fear/know he will lose.
I think that is pretty clear position. Not sure why you ask me about that?

Sorry Jeffe, I misread or misinterpreted the sentiment behind your comments.

El Jeffe – February 23, 2016 02:42AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Quote
ARL
Quote
El Jeffe
Quote
ARL
Jeffe,

Say Apple cooperates.

Are you comfortable with Russia China and probably Isis also having this backdoor? That is what will happen.

I want NOTHING of the sort. What gave you that idea?
I am cheering Tim Cook on.
I fear/know he will lose.
I think that is pretty clear position. Not sure why you ask me about that?

Sorry Jeffe, I misread or misinterpreted the sentiment behind your comments.

That's okay. I think this is a fight that DEFINES apple and cook. and seriously I would think his strong convictions might result in him resigning or running for office or renouncing citizenship. seems plausible.

John Willoughby – February 23, 2016 06:52AM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
Quote
Cloudscout
I don't see how that is true. If it's possible to execute a hack like this, what would prevent Russia and China from forcing Apple to do it regardless of whether the US does so?

As for ISIS, that makes no sense. How would ISIS force Apple to open devices for them?

I think that ARL was referring to the (common) assumption that the tool that Apple creates will not be a single-use tool, but will be retained by law enforcement to use whenever it seems appropriate to them. And, given the general inability of the government to keep ANYTHING secret, it would inevitably be acquired by other parties interested in cracking cell phones.

El Jeffe – February 23, 2016 07:14AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
but I heard they would still need to issue a device-specific cert. which either law enforcement can't do.... assuming... or, if they CAN, then they can root that process

ARL (Moderator) – February 23, 2016 02:39PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
John Willoughby
Quote
Cloudscout
I don't see how that is true. If it's possible to execute a hack like this, what would prevent Russia and China from forcing Apple to do it regardless of whether the US does so?

As for ISIS, that makes no sense. How would ISIS force Apple to open devices for them?

I think that ARL was referring to the (common) assumption that the tool that Apple creates will not be a single-use tool, but will be retained by law enforcement to use whenever it seems appropriate to them. And, given the general inability of the government to keep ANYTHING secret, it would inevitably be acquired by other parties interested in cracking cell phones.

Exactly.

Cloudscout – February 23, 2016 03:11PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
Like Bill said, if Apple DID release this firmware hack and tied it to the various hardware IDs on the device in question (which is what the judge explicitly ordered), it wouldn't matter whether the government kept it secret or not. It wouldn't function on other devices except for the one that it was specifically written for. To run it on another device would require modification of the firmware which would have to be signed by Apple again. It's not a matter of trusting the government not to let it leak. Any leak would be useless unless you got a hold of Apple's private key. If they had that, they wouldn't need Apple's help in the first place.

And as for precedent, there's nothing stopping other countries from ordering Apple to do this right now. The only way for Apple to prevent this is to implement TPM which enforces the PIN limits in hardware which can't be overridden by the OS like this.

ARL (Moderator) – February 24, 2016 02:03PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
Cloudscout
Like Bill said, if Apple DID release this firmware hack and tied it to the various hardware IDs on the device in question (which is what the judge explicitly ordered), it wouldn't matter whether the government kept it secret or not. It wouldn't function on other devices except for the one that it was specifically written for. To run it on another device would require modification of the firmware which would have to be signed by Apple again. It's not a matter of trusting the government not to let it leak. Any leak would be useless unless you got a hold of Apple's private key. If they had that, they wouldn't need Apple's help in the first place.

And as for precedent, there's nothing stopping other countries from ordering Apple to do this right now. The only way for Apple to prevent this is to implement TPM which enforces the PIN limits in hardware which can't be overridden by the OS like this.

Well, IF it can be tied to the hardware (say so it does one backup of the data to some other storage device and then erases itself) I would be okay with that.

However, I'm concerned there'll be a "thin end of the wedge" that'll lead to massive government overreach (I believe some govt dept has already said they have over 100 phones they'd also like to crack).

As a tangential example when the poorly conceived metadata legislation was passed in Australia was passed the number of statutory bodies applying for warrantless access turned into an absolute free-for-all (Dept of Fisheries, Greyhound racing Victoria, Australia Post, Consumer Affairs, The RSPCA -- I mean, WTF??)

Maybe my tin-foil hat is constricting the blood supply to my head, but I can foresee the next step being demands that Apple dismantle the security features in their newest phones (the fingerprint ID thingy etc). Because, terrorists...



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/24/2016 02:05PM by ARL.

ARL (Moderator) – February 24, 2016 02:07PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Oh, and if Trump becomes Pres, God help you poor bastards in the new fatherland...

Cloudscout – February 24, 2016 05:13PM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!
Yeah, however this turns out, I expect Apple will make changes to their architecture in the future to make it impossible to fulfill requests like these.

As for that guy getting elected? I will be relocating to Norway.

John Willoughby – February 24, 2016 06:20PM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
I'd rather Trump than Cruz. Though I'd rather hit myself repeatedly in the head with a brick than have either of them. New Zealand is my preferred relocation zone, but they don't like obese immigrants. So, Canada or Ireland.

ARL (Moderator) – February 24, 2016 07:13PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Wow, didn't realise NZ became so picky.

Does NZ seriously give more weight (sorry, bad pun) to your BMI than the skill set you bring?

If you choose Ireland and anyone is casually enquiring about the denomination of your sky-daddy, just remember:


ddt – February 24, 2016 07:17PM Reply Quote
Oh, you can't move to any town in the American South (and a lot of the West) without the first question to you being, "What church are you going to go to?"

ddt

ARL (Moderator) – February 25, 2016 01:51AM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Hopefully you're less likely to be spat on or you know, tar & feathered or knee-capped...

El Jeffe – February 25, 2016 02:39AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Where has "Apple's relationship..." thread gone? ( You guys are safe where you are )

Tim Cook's ABC interview..

http://goo.gl/FGlys6

El Jeffe – February 25, 2016 02:42AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Fortifying iCloud now ...
Apple working on stronger iCloud backup encryption and iPhone security to counter FBI unlock requests
http://wp.me/p1xtr9-1Lq8

[which reminds me, I need to generate some encryption keys for a/the major US Bank today. And in case you guys do not KNOW, this largest bank goes to extremes that one cannot even directly communicate with their encryption (think KEY MASTER) department or DUDE; nor know any details (email, phone, location), they protect those workers' identities so that they can NEVER BE COMPROMISED. Now imagine how someone like ME goes about working in conjunction with total secrecy for like "When things go wrong" ala support desk in a black hole.... ]



Edited 2 time(s). Last edit at 02/25/2016 02:45AM by El Jeffe.

El Jeffe – February 26, 2016 01:02PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
The Apple/Gubmint news is really getting interesting, heating up quickly.
We might see if the world's deepest pockets can hire the best irresistable lawyers to go against the immovable USofA government.
Or is Apple immovable? I dunno... either way...

Maybe the HQ is a spaceship, Apple will sail away; declare sovereignty, et al...

John Willoughby – February 26, 2016 01:32PM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
I think that the FBI has been setting up this showdown for a year or more. Trying to get a test case that will establish precedent, one that paints their efforts to eliminate the right to digital privacy in the best possible light. "We have to stop terrorists." "Apple is protecting iSIS." "Apple is refusing to help us decrypt the phone as a marketing strategy."

ARL (Moderator) – February 27, 2016 02:06AM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote

I think that the FBI has been setting up this showdown for a year or more.

Yup, this is how Smart TVs, er telescreens begin...

(My God I'm sounding so tin-foil-hat)

Cloudscout – February 27, 2016 05:04AM Reply Quote
Det finnes ikke dårlig vær, bare dårlige klær!

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