Spork Boards

WAR!

Robert Taylor – December 12, 2007 10:15AM Reply Quote
Well, at least B?K! got a head start.

ARL (Moderator) – August 11, 2008 03:49PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Old Gorby isn't very happy about the US and Georgia anyhow...

rino – August 12, 2008 01:35PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Just figuring out this military budget quirk?
We spend something on the order of more than the next 40 nations combined!


...and yet I can't turn my eyes from the hideous gear.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 08/12/2008 01:36PM by rino.

El Jeffe – August 12, 2008 01:51PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
what?

morganti – August 18, 2008 11:27AM Reply Quote
Well, sorry, but the war in Iraq and Afghanistan is not over.

The Neocons can "bluster" all day long about the "new cold war" or whatever, but na' gonna' happn'. Sorry.

Georgia, you were overpromised and underdelivered. You should have KNOWN we were already too deep in other shit to worry about your shit.

But hey. Maybe if some catastrophic event happens, you could be lucky enough to get McCain and your favorite friend Randy in power.

Odd that the very country that Randy was lobbying for would somehow get the impression that we would support them if "the fecal matter hit the rotary ventilation device".

Morg "Weird things just happen coincidentally I suppose..." anti

SoupIsGood Food – August 31, 2008 04:11AM Reply Quote
It's become increasingly clear that South Ossetia was a trap laid out for Russia, rather than one laid out for Georgia... and by the EU, not the US. This is almost certainly the response to Russia's abandonment of Democracy, the final insult Europe was going to take.

They politely put up with heavy-handed meddling in Ukraine, including an assassination attempt on an elected leader. They politely put up with a brutal assassination on British soil using radioactive polonium. They politely put up with the Czech Republic having its gas shut off in the middle of the winter for political reasons.

Now they are politely going to dismantle the Putin regime, and put on a clinic to show the U.S. How It's Done.

Europe has been very slowly, very deliberately putting together a package of economic and political sanctions that will cripple the new Russian oligarchy. Russia is starting to realize this, and is trying to wriggle out of it: begging for more international observers in Georgia, trying to laugh off previous threats of pulling out of any co-operation with NATO, trying to talk Germany out of re-organizing its energy infrastructure plans, all but begging Gordon Brown not to do anything with Russian assets in British banks.

How certain is it this is? France is saying that they are against any form of sanctions. This is like George Bush saying he's against government spending. Yeah, in theory, but in reality something very different is taking shape... Putin all but spit in Sarkozy's face. It's also an unsubtle reminder of the Cold War, when France often broke publicly with the rest of Europe, but remained in lockstep behind closed doors against the Eastern Bloc.

The best bit was to get Russia to declare they didn't need to be part of the WTO. Now the WTO will be a weapon used against them.

Actually, no, the best bit was to bait Russia into overplaying its hand with Georgia in response to Georgia's dealing with breakaway regions. In a plain old economic war, China might well side with Russia, and form a new trading block that wasn't as reliant on Europe. But with Russia recognizing South Ossetia and Abkhazia, China and India are so completely not on board - they both have breakaway regions or regions trying to break away. I'm beginning to think that recognizing Kosovo was a carefully calculated provocation engineered to get Russia to over-react when the time came to prod Georgia into action against South Ossetia...

SoupLovesInternational Intrigue

El Jeffe – August 31, 2008 04:12AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I sure hope so. I 'like' Russia, but they have overstepped in some ways ... it appears.

Medvedyev looks just LIKE this bratty kid two houses down from me. And I can't stand him.

John Willoughby – August 31, 2008 09:09AM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
I wish I could believe that, Soup. I do think Russia has played this badly, and will suffer for it. But I don't believe that this is some over-arching plan. I think this is a dozen different actors, each trying to play their own game, and running up against the actions of the others. I think Georgia thought they could regain control over their rebellious regions, and hoped that any Russian response would push NATO into extending protection to Georgia and allowing closer connections to the EC. They clearly underestimated the scope of the Russian response, and ran into Putin's desire to demonstrate that Russia was again strong and ready to assert its power in what they consider its legitimate sphere of influence. Putin's trying to send a message to the West that they're not kicking Russia around any more and, perhaps, that if the US wants to invade Iran we might run into problems while our backs are turned.

ARL (Moderator) – August 31, 2008 10:08PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
>It's become increasingly clear that South Ossetia was a trap laid out for Russia, rather than one laid out for Georgia... and by the EU, not the US. This is almost certainly the response to Russia's abandonment of Democracy, the final insult Europe was going to take.

...snip...

>I think this is a dozen different actors, each trying to play their own game, and running up against the actions of the others.

I think it's a bit of both (and why do the French always have to be so damn French?)

Regardless, it would be nice to see the EU talking a strong stance.

Russia has not been given the attention it deserves on the world stage (and by that I mean we haven't been wary and vigilent enough). We took it's democracy for granted and Putin is what we have gotten as a result.

tliet – September 01, 2008 05:27AM Reply Quote
The EU is as usual hopelessly divided with Norway and the Baltic states calling for strong measures against Russia, while Germany and a whole bunch of other nations call for a moderate response and political solution.

I think the solution will be found in the EU supporting Georgia in the best possible ways to get on top of their economic problems. In 10 years time the break away parts will want to rethink their decision to join Russia.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2008 05:27AM by tliet.

John Willoughby – September 01, 2008 08:38AM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
...which will do them one hell of a lot of good with a motor rifle regiment parked in them.

El Jeffe – September 01, 2008 01:23PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I'm glad we're not on the same physical land mass as both Russia and China.

El Jeffe – September 01, 2008 01:28PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
The DUTCH were going to uh, engage Iran?

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?cid=1220186494776&pagename=JPost%2FJPArticle%2FShowFull

Quote

The Dutch intelligence service, the AIVD, has called off an operation aimed at infiltrating and sabotaging Iran's weapons industry due to an assessment that a US attack on the Islamic Republic's nuclear program is imminent, according to a report in the country's De Telegraaf newspaper on Friday.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/01/2008 01:29PM by El Jeffe.

John Willoughby – September 01, 2008 03:30PM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
The Iranians would have figured it out. I mean, one wooden shoe in a cyclotron might be an accident, but 4,000?

ARL (Moderator) – September 01, 2008 05:22PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
LOL!

tliet – September 01, 2008 08:55PM Reply Quote
LOL...

Since basically 80% of what the Telegraaf writes is garbage or some malformed lie, I wouldn't want to trust one unconfirmed report from that paper.

If true however, it shows the differences in approaching the handling of the Iran problem.

SoupIsGood Food – September 08, 2008 04:29PM Reply Quote
So. Oliver North... yes. That Ollie North... lied through his teeth under oath. Again. And committed high treason in doing so. Again. Fucker's pretty much lost us the war in Afghanistan: by covering for a botched raid, he torpedoed any hope of a continuing or expanded military relationship with Pakistan inside their borders. The US has pretty much been calling the civilian victims a pack of liars, because, and I quote -

"The US military said that its findings were corroborated by an independent journalist embedded with the US force. He was named as the Fox News correspondent Oliver North, who came to prominence in the 1980s Iran-Contra affair, when he was an army colonel."

Well, Ollie says we only blew up badguys, so that must have been what happened... and then the US was confrontational and arrogant in their denials. Now we're boned. We were on thin ice with Karzai as it is: if he resigns in protest, the war is lost. The end.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 09/08/2008 04:31PM by SoupIsGood Food.

John Willoughby – September 08, 2008 04:34PM Reply Quote
Save us, Lord, from the furries of the Norsemen!
Oliver North was a marine officer, not an army officer. I hope that the rest of the article was better researched.

SoupIsGood Food – September 09, 2008 12:43AM Reply Quote
Nice to see the domestic press falling all over themselves to cover this one. And to be blunt, it could have described Olliver North as eight foot tall and blue, and we still would be able to pick up on who they were talking about. It's shocking and reprehensible and he needs to spend some time in Leavenworth for this.

ARL (Moderator) – September 09, 2008 02:07AM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
I'm always suspicious of "official US" casualty numbers. After all, "we don't do body counts"...

El Jeffe – September 09, 2008 04:53AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Quote

The top secret operations, he said, will "some day in history ... be described to people's amazement."

Does anyone of Woodward's caliber ever praise (any part of) the war?

http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/meast/09/09/iraq.secret/index.html

Quote

WASHINGTON (CNN) -- The dramatic drop in violence in Iraq is due in large part to a secret program the U.S. military has used to kill terrorists, according to a new book by Pulitzer Prize-winning journalist Bob Woodward.

The program -- which Woodward compares to the World War II era Manhattan Project that developed the atomic bomb -- must remain secret for now or it would "get people killed," Woodward said Monday on CNN's Larry King Live.

"It is a wonderful example of American ingenuity solving a problem in war, as we often have," Woodward said.

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