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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 07, 2007 09:43PM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

ddt – June 25, 2017 11:44AM Reply Quote
I genuinely would like to hear an attempt at defending this (and the modern Republican party that thinks this is a good idea): http://www.newsweek.com/womens-rights-birth-control-abortion-missouri-discrimination-628538

ddt

ARL (Moderator) – June 25, 2017 02:50PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
I thought The Handmaid's Tale was meant to be fiction, not the GOP manifesto...

John Willoughby – June 25, 2017 05:59PM Reply Quote
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Quote
ARL
I thought The Handmaid's Tale was meant to be fiction, not the GOP manifesto...

Clearly you understand nothing of the GOP. (That's a good thing.)

bahamut – June 26, 2017 11:09AM Reply Quote
I don't think Bernie would ever get elected. I have a dark view of this, that the "Bernie would have won" position is to sucker the Dems… He wasn't electable. We just don't know how unelectable because he didn't run against a Republican who wanted blood. My own hope, and it is likely misguided, is Biden/Warren with a "I'm only here for four years" promise from Biden. Although DAMN, he'd be 78 at inauguration day. I dunno.

John Willoughby – June 26, 2017 11:12AM Reply Quote
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Supreme Court is allowing part of Trump’s travel ban to come back into force until they can hear the case. Foreign nationals from the countries in question without existing ties or relationships in the US can be blocked.

johnny k – June 26, 2017 11:25AM Reply Quote
Trump wasn't electable, either. Sanders had and continues to have one of the highest favorability ratings of any politician. Why couldn't he have won? The question is, did working class whites who swung the Midwest from Democrat to Republican do so because their allegiance changed, they didn't want a woman in office, or they didn't want an establishment candidate?

John Willoughby – June 26, 2017 11:55AM Reply Quote
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Yes.

ddt – June 26, 2017 12:24PM Reply Quote
Yeah, I'm not sold at all on the "Bernie would have won". Aside from being a counterfactual, the post-election demographic breakdowns (including registers voters who didn't go to the polls) sure don't seem to show that many if any states would have broken for Bernie. A larger factor in many states was simply voter suppression of one type or another (ID laws, closed or restricted-hour polling locations); this is way local and state elections matter so much.

Yeah, still angry at Berniebros who aren't going to lose health insurance, local Planned Parenthood locations, food stamps, but who were sure the whole "heighten the contradictions" would lead to a progressive overthrow. We can't even be sure the Senate or House will go blue in a few years.

But at least there's this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/06/23/opinion/trumps-lies.html?_r=1

ddt

ARL (Moderator) – June 26, 2017 02:45PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Jeremy Corbyn clearly shows Bernie would have done very well. Let me rephrase, "would have done very well, until the swift-boating started."

ddt – June 26, 2017 03:33PM Reply Quote
I don't know if that's generalizable. It seems you're counting on "well, young people voted disproportionately and disproportionally for the left-er candidate in Britain, so... ." This doesn't account for May blundering horribly in public and running a terrible candidacy, nor for the institutional advantage Republicans have here in a) turnout b) the electoral college c) ratfucking.

ddt

John Willoughby – June 26, 2017 04:25PM Reply Quote
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And who knows what the Russians have in their infodumps about Bernie? We would have found out.

ddt – June 26, 2017 05:04PM Reply Quote
We have a pretty good idea of what the Republicans had planned to smear Bernie with. http://www.joemygod.com/2016/11/15/newsweek-posts-gop-oppo-research-on-bernie-sander/

ddt

ARL (Moderator) – June 26, 2017 05:40PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
ddt
We have a pretty good idea of what the Republicans had planned to smear Bernie with. http://www.joemygod.com/2016/11/15/newsweek-posts-gop-oppo-research-on-bernie-sander/

ddt

Planned to? They're already doing it: http://www.distractify.com/politics/2017/06/26/2uE5dA/bernie-and-jane-sanders-a

Quote

In a letter sent to the FBI by former Trump campaign manager, Brady Toensing, he accused Mrs. Sanders of falsifying and inflating nearly $2 million that she claimed donors had pledged towards the repayment of the loans, and that Mr. Sanders had attempted to use his sway to ease along one of the loans.

Going after the wife, no less.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 06/26/2017 05:41PM by ARL.

ARL (Moderator) – June 26, 2017 05:48PM Reply Quote
I whinge therefore I am!
Quote
ddt
I don't know if that's generalizable. It seems you're counting on "well, young people voted disproportionately and disproportionally for the left-er candidate in Britain, so... ." This doesn't account for May blundering horribly in public and running a terrible candidacy, nor for the institutional advantage Republicans have here in a) turnout b) the electoral college c) ratfucking.

ddt

Re: energising the youth base, um yes. I may be wrong but my understanding was Hillary struggled with the under 35s.

Re: Opponent blundering horribly in public - Trump didn't blunder in public?

Re: a) b) & c) - granted, fair points. I have no suggestions on fixing this other than Clinton & Sanders were both at a disadvantage.

Hillary was in many ways a terrible candidate and the DNC badly misread the mood of the electorate in foisting her upon them.

John Willoughby – June 26, 2017 06:32PM Reply Quote
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Don't worry. They still don't get it. 2018 will be bad, and 2020 will be worse.

bahamut – June 27, 2017 11:12AM Reply Quote
I misread that link, DDT. I thought there was a dump of GOOP (not the GOP) oppo research on Bernie. Fucking Gwyneth Paltrow, she just won't stop.

ddt – June 27, 2017 11:14AM Reply Quote
Ha, funny. I am currently reading a book titled "Is Gwyneth Paltrow Wrong About Everything?" -- so far, pretty much. Though it could be written better, and do more of going into studies rather than relying on single studies.

ddt

johnny k – June 28, 2017 05:31AM Reply Quote
Opposition research dumps on character didn't stick to Trump. Perhaps the dumps just reinforce existing beliefs about a candidate, and that's where passion about the candidate matters. We don't know how it would've hurt Sanders' chances, but we do know it worked on Clinton.

As you mention that voter suppression would've kept any Democratic candidate down, two thoughts come to mind. 1) If true, why bother picking the compromise candidate? 2) To the degree suppression efforts affected minorities instead of college students, that might've had less effect on Sanders as his base is whiter.

Speaking of generalization, it's not accurate or productive to represent all Sanders supporters as "Berniebros". A better broad brush, if you must, would be "Berniekids" - the biggest gap in his demographics was between older and younger voters, not the genders. Given that, I think it's silly to think that Sanders voters didn't have a stake in the outcome.

I'm an eternal optimist, but I'm coming around to JW's view. Ossoff shows that the Democrats haven't learned shit. They continue to run milquetoast candidates propped up by national money instead of nurturing grassroots candidates who already have enthusiasm on the ground. The official platform seems to be proving MLK's distrust of white moderates, devoted more to order than to justice. Well, the longer this self-immolation goes on, the more rich soil for something better to grow in.

John Willoughby – June 28, 2017 10:33AM Reply Quote
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Or for democracy to be buried in.

John Willoughby – June 28, 2017 12:18PM Reply Quote
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It's funny to see Trump criticizing Obama for not doing something about Russian interference before the election. If Obama had done ANYTHING touching the election, the GOP and Trump would scream bloody murder claiming that he was trying to bias the election towards Hillary. After all, neither the GOP nor Trump expected to win and it would have suited their narrative to have the Dems perceived as manipulating the vote.

Not, of course, that Trump needs any reality-based argument to scream to his base.

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