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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 07, 2007 09:43PM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

John Willoughby – March 05, 2008 09:18PM Reply Quote
Cyberdyne Systems Customer Support
>all Obama's supporters will be betrayed and stay home.

Nope. I don't have any strong feelings against Hillary. And I will NEVER vote in a way that allows any lingering neo-con/Bushite faction in the GOP to claim another 50.1% "mandate."

Mokers (Moderator) – March 06, 2008 09:38AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/23499719/

It gets more interesting every day.

El Jeffe – March 06, 2008 09:38AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
best 2 out of 3? That's what they'd hoped for in the previous election.

What a journey.

rino – March 06, 2008 01:40PM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
It's the state party people who screwed the state's voters by deciding to go against the rules of the DNC. Not the way to play ball.
On the other hand the DNC is looking like a dumb ass too by blocking the voter's record.

A do over -- don't they know it costs money to run an election?! How would they organize? Obama wasn't on the ballot in Michigan. Loads of questions zipperhead Dean didn't answer for me on NPR this morning.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/06/2008 01:41PM by rino.

ddt – March 06, 2008 02:44PM Reply Quote
on NPR (ToTN) someone in FL said it'd take about $25mil to run a do-over.

ddt

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 06, 2008 05:57PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
THey had the FL gov on NPR. He said he wanted the current delegates seated. He said it over and over again. Of course he does. He's GOP. And Clinton won.

ddt – March 06, 2008 06:39PM Reply Quote
yeah, and wasn't it that R gov and his R sec'y of state in FL that moved the D primary up so early, in defiance of the DNC? thought i heard that, but am not sure i'm remembering it correctly. IANAL, IIRC, etc.

ddt

Mokers (Moderator) – March 06, 2008 08:08PM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Those are fairly weak arguments guys. The RNC punished Florida and Michigan as well, remember. They only get half the delegates as a result of their decisions. The DNC was the one that made the decision to strip away all of the delegates. Oh, and the bill was signed LAST MAY, so it's not like the DNC didn't have time to find a solution for everything. Blame this fuck up on Dean, because he is the one that is supposed to be running the show over there.

stan adams – March 07, 2008 05:24AM Reply Quote
Did anybody see 60 minutes last weekend? They did some "man on the street" interviews asking "who you going to vote for and why" -- the reporter was so flummoxed by the number of folks who said things like "Obama seems like he might be better, but I'm worried about this whole Muslim thing...".

I have a number of friends that hail from the Buckeye state -- ALL of 'em have been spammed with smears against Obama. If you google "obama email" the first or second hit is http://www.snopes.com/politics/obama/muslim.asp

Folks, Ohio is ripe for these kind of dirty tricks. Some of the yet to be decided states even more so. It doesn't really matter if Clinton is behind it or GOP operatives. It is wrong wrong wrong. I suspect that McCain will vocally denounce it and say he'd be proud to run against either Senator. It should be interesting to see how Hillary handles it...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/07/2008 05:25AM by stan adams.

rino – March 07, 2008 05:25AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Well his name is s-c-a-r-y as hell. You have to admit this.

ddt – March 07, 2008 06:02AM Reply Quote
why? why is his name scary?

"why is the sky blue?",

ddt

El Jeffe – March 07, 2008 07:28AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I always thought ddt was someone toxic, too.

What a journey.

ddt – March 07, 2008 08:29AM Reply Quote
you've no idea, bill.

ddt

stan adams – March 07, 2008 12:20PM Reply Quote
I enjoy reading Peggy Noonan. She has very keen insights on what really happens inside campaigns. I don't always agree with her, and I'm sure many of you dislike her for her association with RR, please put that aside and read this:

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB120485348696518343.html?mod=todays_columnists

It is striking that Ms. Noonan was able to pinpoint so many things that are grating about New York's Jr. Senator: " She does not care what you think, she will have what she wants, she will not do the feints, pivots and backoffs that presidents must. She is neither nimble nor agile, and she knows best."

When one considers all recent Presidents and VPs I would have to say that sounds most like Dick Cheney. That could be very bad.

If you look at Hillary's past, from her "Goldwater Girl" days to present the common thread is striving to authority -- a most frightening quality in leaders of any kind, especially so when she has endured no significant struggle. She grew up in posh quiet suburb, went to the finest schools, lived a life of connections and privilege yet she has a very unnatural sense of persecution.

I sincerely hope that should receive the nomination she choose a VP very different than she is and that her SS agents are very very sloppy... No one deserves to go down as a martyr for the Nation more than she...

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 07, 2008 02:21PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Quote
Mokers
Those are fairly weak arguments guys. The RNC punished Florida and Michigan as well, remember. They only get half the delegates as a result of their decisions. The DNC was the one that made the decision to strip away all of the delegates. Oh, and the bill was signed LAST MAY, so it's not like the DNC didn't have time to find a solution for everything. Blame this fuck up on Dean, because he is the one that is supposed to be running the show over there.

Huh? Maybe I was just being to subtle.
The GOP wants Clinton as the dem nominee. They see an opportunity in Michigan and Florida. Obama didn't even run in Michigan and Florida went Hillary. If they can seat those delegates without getting any sort of do-over, hillary get's harder for Obama to beat. The Florida Governor was very clear that he didn't want a do-over. He just wanted the DEMOCRATIC delegates sat. Not terribly fair to Obama.

What did dean do wrong? He told those states if you break the rules, your delegates will not be sat. They broke the rules. He says I told you so. Should he go back on his word?? Show them that there are no consequences for ignoring the rules?

rino – March 08, 2008 04:26AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
http://www.npr.org/blogs/news/2008/03/texas_twostep_leaving_dems_fla_1.html

Love the first comment:
Quote

Why doesn't Howard Dean and the DNC just name another five hundred superdelegates, then eliminate Democratic primary voting by the public altogether?

Seems that would make Howard Dean and the DNC's job all that much easier.

Turn everything over to BIG federal government and eliminate the Democratic Party's voters completely.

So much simpler. So fewer headaches.

Mokers (Moderator) – March 08, 2008 07:14AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Wait, so the crazy republicans are responsible because they want Hillary to win, yet they did their best to remove the delegates from two states Clinton won? Nine months ago, they knew that Obama would be the second place finisher and Hillary would need a controversy just in case it was a really close delegate count? Just because Dean had an ultimatum doesn't mean it made sense. The DNC had plenty of time to resolve this issue, but did nothing. I don't see why the state should be responsible because the DNC fucked up. And what is your excuse for Michigan. And how do you blame the republicans for Michigan?

El Jeffe – March 08, 2008 11:28AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I think the whole freaking political system is broken beyond repair. Just exactly WHO (normal citizens) is satisfied with it?

What a journey.

Dr Phred (Moderator) – March 08, 2008 01:44PM Reply Quote
owned by the mothership.
Quote
Mokers
Wait, so the crazy republicans are responsible because they want Hillary to win, yet they did their best to remove the delegates from two states Clinton won? Nine months ago, they knew that Obama would be the second place finisher and Hillary would need a controversy just in case it was a really close delegate count? Just because Dean had an ultimatum doesn't mean it made sense. The DNC had plenty of time to resolve this issue, but did nothing. I don't see why the state should be responsible because the DNC fucked up. And what is your excuse for Michigan. And how do you blame the republicans for Michigan?

Sources? When did the pubs try to remove clinton delegates? I'm just talking Florida, though the Florida governor was saying that the Michigan delegates should be sat even though Obama wasn't even on the ballot.

ddt – March 08, 2008 01:49PM Reply Quote
yeah, i agree that serious reform is needed. a biiig step would be transparency: letting the average citizen know what's going on, how, plus a feeling (and capacity) that change is possible.

sadly, there's a lot of resistance to it. there are a few things i'd think were important.

1. get money out of elections. disabuse the silly notion that money=speech. a big base of democracy is protecting the minority from the majority, and the individual from the mob (ironic, given the root of the word "democracy"). money donations are a terribly inequitable system, impossible for those w/o lots of cash to match those with. what the hell's wrong with public funding of elections? you can vote, you can voice your opinion. maybe even public funding would come with the requirement for more direct confrontation of the candidates by citizens. it'd cost the taxpayer a hell of a lot less -- right now we have to match mitt's self-funding -- have to check, but that's a huge tax write-off for him.

2. outlaw lobbyists from writing legislation. are you fucking kidding me that this is allowed?

3. some sunshine efforts have been welcome. you can now look up online how your rep has voted for everything. you can look up the content of bills. but when even congressional staffs don't have the time to get through omnibus bills stuffed with riders and (often lobbyist-written) tiny remoras of legislation before having to vote, how can the average citizen?

and so on... .

ddt

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