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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 08, 2007 02:43AM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

bahamut – February 13, 2008 10:55AM Reply Quote
if he gives another speech like he did yesterday, he's through.

obama's got reagan written all over him. if he assembles a decent team at denver, he'll be unstoppable. maybe someone like biden?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 10:55AM by bahamut.

tliet – February 13, 2008 11:00AM Reply Quote
> While I agree that the phone companies are spineless turds I'll refrain from shouts of "fascist" until somebody who is not a terrorist is indicted/ hauled away for something -- yes, I know how "by then it'll be too late" but I just don't want to live with the alternative.


Well, since you make the distiction yourself; how many of the illegally held prisoners, err, "Alien Unlawful Enemy Combatants" have been indicted?

El Jeffe – February 13, 2008 11:02AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I KNOW this one....

Not enough?

What do I WIN!!???? wooo hooo!!!

What a journey.

ghidorah – February 13, 2008 12:22PM Reply Quote
Raise taxes on cavemen. --jw
>yes, I know how "by then it'll be too late" but I just don't want to live with the alternative

Yeah, living with the freedoms our forefathers fought and died for really is frightening isn't it?

Franklin had it right: "those who would trade freedom for security deserve neither."

El Jeffe – February 13, 2008 12:27PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
is that why he tried to fly his key away with a kite? (Kinda like ME open-sourcing my password here? )

What a journey.

El Jeffe – February 13, 2008 12:39PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
There's a lot of talk about JFK in this race.

And this is a big twist to the JFK resurgence.

http://www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/story/RTGAM.20080213.wjack13/BNStory/National/home

What a journey.

Dr. Strangelove – February 13, 2008 01:13PM Reply Quote
Quote
stan adams
While I agree that the phone companies are spineless turds I'll refrain from shouts of "fascist" until somebody who is not a terrorist is indicted/ hauled away for something -- yes, I know how "by then it'll be too late" but I just don't want to live with the alternative.

Like Brandon Mayfield?



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 01:13PM by Dr. Strangelove.

stan adams – February 13, 2008 01:53PM Reply Quote
No, his case would seem to be an argument that there are sufficient means in place to correct mistakes, which will ALWAYS happen. I'm very glad that he was well compensated for the mistake that led to his incarceration. I am troubled there may be folks without so easily verified a situation who may actually face some "coercive questioning techniques" and falsely admit to whatever the interrogators propose.You don't need to us the "Patriot Act" to have sloppy police work. In fact such a situation has happened in IL and fortunately the dad's "confession" did not jibe with the DNA and he eventually sued the prosecutor/sheriff and won as well.

Robert Taylor – February 13, 2008 01:55PM Reply Quote
obama's got reagan written all over him. if he assembles a decent team at denver, he'll be unstoppable. maybe someone like biden?

Yup. When I saw Obama at Yearly Kos in August, on stage and in the town hall sessions, after his 2004 DNC keynote, I went "yeah, this is the guy who's got a shot of really transforming the Democratic Party the way Reagan did the Republicans".

I'd actually pick Richardson as Obama's VP: NM is a state the Ds desperately, desperately want in their column, and Richardson would likely help with CO and NV too (AZ isn't going for the Ds unless there's a Nixon/McGovern, LBJ/Goldwater style blowout, and even in the latter, Goldwater won AZ). He's also got legislative, Cabinet, diplomatic AND gubernatorial experience, which makes him the perfect backup. Only catch is that there are whispers of some crude behavior... but I don't know how far that is going to go.

Biden... not so much. The Ds own Delaware (so he's basically no help in pulling in a state), and Biden likes pontificating on Sunday talk shows as a Senate committee chairman too much, plus his party designation SHOULD read "Sen. Biden (D-MBNA)". Biden's other problem is that he was an Iraq war cheerleader like Hillary was. Having a VP who voted the wrong way on Iraq and bankruptcy, after you criticize Hillary's votes, and selecting the ultimate Senate/Washington insider, after a campaign where you run against Washington... not sure that flies.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2008 01:57PM by Robert Taylor.

stan adams – February 13, 2008 02:14PM Reply Quote
Folks -- this is the 2008 election, not the '60 election. I don't think "geographic balance" matters at all. And Reagan went with Bush as his VP as much for his insider status in DC as anything else. Obama IS an insider, he just doesn't have that tired way of expressing it. My guess is that Obama will get a much more behind-the-scenes VP in the mold of Dick Cheney. Of course the image will be important, and it won't be a bulldog type personality, but perhaps someone who was active in the Clinton administration and has defected to the Obama side early on. Richardson has some of these qualities, but not enough. Too bad Les Aspin is dead and William S. Cohen is/was a Republican -- both were legistlators prior to having Sec of D posts. The other Clinton Sec of D would be a great technocrat, but I fear he'd make Cheney seem warm: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/William_Perry#Accomplishments_and_resignation

Look for a "left field" call, maybe even a women Senator -- Maria Cantwell???

SoupIsGood Food – February 13, 2008 04:52PM Reply Quote
OK, so only deluded fools who aren't aware of the blessings eight years of Bush has brought us will vote for Obama! The rest of us are sensible, and will vote for McCaine to stay the course Bubbya has set!

Ummm... that's sort of the point. McCaine had better start running to the center as fast as he can, or he won't make it in time for November. It's likely already too late. Apologies and excuses for failures of current policy will not get you a single vote. Except maybe from Stan.

~ Soop

stan adams – February 13, 2008 05:49PM Reply Quote
I've got nothing to be happy about from "Bush II's reign", nor do I think that many other folks do.

I am rather interested in seeing how the primaries wrap up and the conventions unfold and then how the general election shapes up.

Frankly McCain would be crazy to try and do anything other than be "more seasoned" than Obama -- he does have legitimate credibility as someone who HAS NOT just gone along with WH policies. But that may not even matter all much.

This is the first election in just about forever where there is no incumbant President or VP from either side. In such a situation Obama has "the perfect storm" -- he doesn't have to be "for change" as he is already "a fresh start".

The electorate is stupid. They might just see "old white guy" and assume that "he'll be like all the rest". I suspect people will soon be comparing McCain to Dole -- uh sorry WRONG WAR -- http://www.4president.org/brochures/bobdole1996brochure.htm

BTW Is this guy running for something? http://www.johnmccaine.com/ Seems like he hold the camera steady enough: http://www.photoreflect.com/pr3/OrderPage.aspx?pi=04HY007H000145&po=145

bahamut – February 13, 2008 11:59PM Reply Quote
McCain Dole. Yeah, that seems like Obama Reagan. Or maybe McCain Goldwater? Anyway McCain had his day. He was really really tired yesterday. I can't imagine that schedule and I can't imagine the oldest ever presidential candidate can pull it off.

Mokers (Moderator) – February 14, 2008 02:24AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
I always thought Dodd would be a good choice for a VP for Obama or Hillary. I fail to see why people love Richardson so much. As long as Obama doesn't tap Edwards for AG, he'll have a decent administration. I say that for no other reason than I can't stand John Edwards.Quite honestly, I don't see much changing with a democratic administration. tliet will have to find something else to get fired up about every five minutes, but I see the American economy really picking up steam because all of the ANSWER, moveon.org, code pink, etc types will eventually have to stop complaining and get a job, boosting our overall productivity.

I do hope Obama wins, just so his supporters will shut up. I mean seriously, why does every person I meet anywhere feel they should strike up a conversation with me? OK, so I am half-black, and you support Obama. Contrary to popular belief, you don't get some secret society membership card. Yes, I know all of you aren't like this, particularly you sensible midwesterners, but for fuck's sake this is a huge problem in Los Angeles.

tliet – February 14, 2008 02:30AM Reply Quote
Remy, indeed it's too bad that much won't be changing with the current mainstream opinion much like yours.

But, eventually, reality will catch up, forcing 'us' to change and adapt.

El Jeffe – February 14, 2008 05:33AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Mr. Mokers, you're avoiding the question! How well do you know your black brutha, Mr. OBAMA? ;)

You know, funny thing IS, it does NOT work in reverse. I spent a lot of MY time being the ONLY white (though many people think I like euro-Middle-eastern) in the black society at school. Great for being swooned over by PYTs, but it was just acceptance, not curiosity, for the most part. I even almost decided to 'rush' Alpha Phi Alpha. But I did not have the frat bug...yet. Later went on to become President of another one. But, it is funny all the different perceptions.

What a journey.

rino – February 14, 2008 07:33AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Great post Mokers --

There was a Curb Your Enthusiasm about the notion of clubs/inner circles and it spoke of the lesbian crowd who all knew what Larry was up to and then the african-american as well. Hilarious.

> but I see the American economy really picking up steam because all of the ANSWER, moveon.org, code pink, etc types will eventually have to stop complaining and get a job, boosting our overall productivity

This is classic.

El Jeffe – February 14, 2008 07:41AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
There are some that say G/L drive the economy MORE than their breeder counterparts. They only have their own self-satisfaction, needs, perhaps tempered by charitable causes. And that usually gives rise to more discretionary spending. I mean, I am ONE income (well, now 1.15/1.25 - I keep forgetting the new change at our place) that feeds/clothes five people. But a G/L house is pretty darn near 1:1 income to mouths. (I have no stats on G/L adoption/etc,and know none here that have dependents) So, they are more able to get furniture, shiny new import cars, travel, and be the Jones driving others to go into (subprime) debt to keep up with them.

Anyway, just a few of the G/L workforce troops can make up for a handful the lazy-assed whiners, as far as the economy goes. So, no broad strokes needed. They span the range of productive to leeches just like the rest of us. Though it might not be a bell curve as much as a skateboard half-pipe of distribution.

What a journey.

ddt – February 14, 2008 10:33AM Reply Quote
a skateboard half-pipe of distribution

can't say anything about the content, but that's an awesome phrasing, bill.

ddt

Dr. Strangelove – February 14, 2008 12:20PM Reply Quote
Quote
stan adams
No, his case would seem to be an argument that there are sufficient means in place to correct mistakes, which will ALWAYS happen.

You can only make that argument if you also know how mistakes have gone uncorrected, which you don't. My guess is ... a lot. I only picked Mayfield as an example because we know he wasn't a terrorist. How about Jose Padilla? His case strikes me as one that could easily be an uncorrected mistake. (Not that he was a boy scout, but there's a huge range between boy scout and terrorist.) What about the Afghani who was beaten to death by the CIA? (Can't remember his name, but there's a movie out now about his case by the people who made the Enron movie.) Or the innocent people still being held in Gitmo?

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