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Presidential Politics

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 07, 2007 09:43PM Reply Quote
Every election is the most important one.

stan adams – February 06, 2008 05:52AM Reply Quote
Read this:

http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/2008/02/06/obamas_biggest_weakness/

If you have strong stomach, read this:

http://www.salon.com/mwt/feature/2006/01/24/jeffries/
(there is some kind o bogus flash "watch this" before you get the content, but it is free)

Then answer: Is Obama to presidential election as Abercrombie is to personal style? Aka "what the cool kids mindlessly do"?

Of the three leading front runners for the whole enchilada who has the least negatives?

Mokers (Moderator) – February 06, 2008 06:24AM Reply Quote
Formerly Remy Martin
Quote
Stan's TPM Link
Not that my young friends defend wholeheartedly the system in which they're prospering. To their credit, it makes them uncomfortable. But they grasp at mostly symbolic gestures of a politics of moral posturing that relieves racial and class guilt and steadies their moral self-regard with smallish contributions to Obama, an Ivy alum whom they trust to help those people on the Southside without dragging them too deeply into it; without reconfiguring how we charter our corporations and re-construe the private and public investments that employ upscale young whites and well-behaved non-whites; and certainly without redistributing their own bright prospects and future prerogatives and second homes.

Pretty much how I feel. Not that there aren't a lot of principled voters out there that want Obama, but I hear people talking about voting for him like they just gave him a BJ or something.

El Jeffe – February 06, 2008 07:34AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I don't think it's mindless idol worship. It's very mindful. More power to them.

What a journey.

Madaracs – February 06, 2008 09:25AM Reply Quote
Ooh! Scary! Scary! Don't we look mean? You can't see me! But I can see you!
I wish I were more educated on the candidates but right now based on merit and ideology--I'd go with Obama.

I hope America doesn't screw this one up based on bias and prejudice.

McCain scares the hell out of me.

johnny k – February 06, 2008 12:12PM Reply Quote
Reading too much into anecdotes loaded with stereotypes. Thanks to a diverse field, the media's talking up demographics more than ever. I agree that Obama seems to be fashionable, but shit, that doesn't affect my decision. Obviously, the only thing that matters is that Obama is biracial like me!

What scares you about McCain? I mean, other than, at age 71, he could still probably snap your arms?

El Jeffe – February 06, 2008 12:37PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I think he's a loose cannon. He's too much toward the middle on many things. He's NOT the model of health. He seems to have a chip on his shoulder. Not sure if he can pronounce nuclear for the media kiddiez, though.

What a journey.

El Jeffe – February 06, 2008 12:47PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Wow, cold day in hell. I agree with Harry Reid's using this quote from Thad Cochran:

http://www.cnsnews.com/ViewPolitics.asp?Page=/Politics/archive/200802/POL20080206f.html

Reid said: "The thought of him [McCain] being president sends a cold chill down my spine. He is erratic. He is hotheaded. He loses his temper, and he worries me."

http://www.cnsnews.com/cns/audio/2008/020608Reid.wav

What a journey.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/06/2008 12:48PM by El Jeffe.

stan adams – February 06, 2008 01:04PM Reply Quote
Pronounce it? Hell he'll BRING nuclear down on your ass!

But seriously McCain has the opportunity to make a good argument that he can and has "sided with the other side" on many things and we are all better for it. I can see that working for him in the general election far more than any other candidate.

Although not as polished as Obama, they can both think on their feet. Neither one sounds like a crazy person (either the Ron Paul, Denis Kucinich, or even Mike Huckabee type...). Thinks could be interesting.

El Jeffe – February 06, 2008 01:18PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
You paint a worst of both worlds picture for me.

What a journey.

tliet – February 06, 2008 09:55PM Reply Quote
Bill, could you name some of the accomplishments of Bush that you're really happy with? Happy, like; if the guy could get a 3rd term I'd vote for him again.

This is not a knee jerk question, but a genuine one.

El Jeffe – February 07, 2008 12:35AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
I've said before that I do not consider him conservative/right ENOUGH.
And I gotta run to work, but quickly...
1. Reaction to 9/11; AWOT
2. SCOTUS appointments
3. Tax cuts
4. NCLB

lots of bloated centrist crap in the things he did not fight for, though.

Hope that clarifies things for you.

What a journey.

El Jeffe – February 07, 2008 04:05AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Here is a great list/discussion I found on this subject. Again, busy - so I can't go over them point by point.

http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1066122/posts

What a journey.

El Jeffe – February 07, 2008 05:06AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/2008/02/and-obama-wept.html

Not unlike Oprah's devout followers, as well. Or Steve Jobs. One can find this in any 'movement', I'd say.

What a journey.

morganti – February 07, 2008 05:12AM Reply Quote
Oh my lord Bill. Ill grant you a lot of leeway since you are busy and didn't actually go through that list... but seriously...

A few choice bits...
Changed the tone in the White House, restoring HONOR and DIGNITY to the presidency.
*faints*. HONOR and DIGNITY? Seriously? Deleting emails, Lying to congress, obfuscating, claiming the VP is a "fourth branch"? HONOR and DIGNITY? sheesh

Has reintroduced the mention of God and faith into public discourse.
You can't possibly be serious. Come ON dude. Religion has NEVER LEFT the public discourse. Seriously, the president takes his oath ON THE BIBLE. Every president EVER has been a "religious" person. Every candidate in 1992, 1996, 2000, 2004, and 2008 election talked about their faith, and the strength god gave them, etc. It's such an absurd statement I can barely reply.

Just three days after the attacks, in his address at the National Cathedral, the President reassured the nation when he said: "War has been waged against us by stealth and deceit and murder. This nation is peaceful, but fierce when stirred to anger. This conflict was begun on the timing and terms of others. It will end in a way, and at an hour, of our choosing."
If by our, you mean, his lonely, unilateral, choosing. Not the choosing of the "american people". Not the choosing of congress. Not the choosing of the international community. The choosing of Bush and Cheney and maybe a couple of advisors. Gotta love democracy.

Signed the No Child Left Behind Act
Wow... Dont get me wrong, in a way, it makes sense (even to hippie liberals) that teachers and schools teach their students well, and that they be accountable. Of course, this says nothing about the fact that NCLB puts forth a whole bunch of regulations, and tests, and requirements and then DOESN"T GIVE NEARLY ENOUGH FUNDING to actually execute these requirements. Thus, states take the additional burden. Schools get closed because there's no money to actually "fix" the problems. And even better, Teachers, School Boards, Schools, and Students are INCENTIVIZED to cheat! Is that "ok" no. Is it a fact, yes. I always think back to the bumpersticker about Airforce bombers, schools and Bake Sales.

Handled himself with enormous courage, dignity, grace, determination, and leadership in the aftermath of the September 11, 2001 hijackings and anthrax attacks.
Oh, one of my favorites. Remember, since 9/11 President Bush has been a stalwart protector of this nation. Notice, we haven't had an attack on US soil since 9/11! Except for ANTHRAX... Anybody remember ANTHRAX? Seriously, anyone ever figure out where THAT came from? Why aren't we attacking Uruguay, because maybe they're harboring mobile Anthrax labs??? Huh, great job hunting down the terrorists...

If I could have a "political" wish, its that the Republicans would run on that "Bush Track Record" for the next 30 years, like they've done with Reagan.

Morg "Never mind... its almost too easy. "anti

El Jeffe – February 07, 2008 05:18AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
No need for leeway. It's always amazing to see drastically different takes/opinions on this stuff, to me, too. But, I respect your desire to see things differently, nonetheless.

What a journey.

stan adams – February 07, 2008 06:15AM Reply Quote
I saw an article the other day that basically said "having two 'warring parties' makes for a healthy kind of national politics. I tend to agree, having seen the results of single party rule in other countries, and I also believe that the tug-of-war has a tendency to make the longer term a little more "self correcting".

ddt – February 07, 2008 07:00AM Reply Quote
remember, in mr. jefferson's terms, this country is designed to have a "revolution" every four years. in the contemporary context of the french revolution, an orderly changeover of the people in power was revolutionary.

sure i'm mangling terms and dates -- maybe mr. taylor can refine my thoughts here.

but yeah, i'll add that all the teachers and principals and other educators i've talked to in the last two years (more than a few dozen) have ALL said how NCLB has destroyed their ability to do anything but "teach the test" and drained their budgets.

ddt

El Jeffe – February 07, 2008 07:25AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
We are able to move amongst away from underperformers to performers here. I like that the school (individual school) last year actively found and engaged us to market their school to us. Most likely because of my children's' high (insert any one of various tests) test scores. But, since some scored as underperforming, we were not bound to attend the school in our normal school district. We, did, however, choose to do so. It's quite embarrassing to hear whispered "The Smiths are coming back to our school!", in a congratulatory manner, though, and odd is how I found it. But, we are HELPING their overall rating, and they WANT that. I think when my son was in 3rd grade, he had score in excess of 12th grade targets in a few areas. And quite frankly, we are responsible for putting him in a school that won't bring HIM down. Even though I can't afford special/private schools, and they might not be any better anyway, and often or most certainly might be less conservative, I still want the best we can get from our exorbitant tax dollars. But, then again, I'm thinking of moving to europe or latin america. So, the best laid plans. ;)

What a journey.

rino – February 07, 2008 08:25AM Reply Quote
In America, the only respectable form of socialism is socialism for the rich.
Maybe Hugo would have a position for you?

Don't forget that your "exorbitant tax dollars" go MORE toward a 3/4 of a TRILLION defense budget and NOT education.

We simply do not need to spend more than 40 nations combined on defense. How about just 20 nations combined? How about just shaving 100 billion off the defense budget?

I'm not saying throw money at the school systems. I do agree on some standardization and measure of progress -- it only makes sense. But seriously, most school districts area hell of a lot more efficient than our military managers. I've been in both.

Dr. Strangelove – February 07, 2008 08:32AM Reply Quote
So Romney's out, because, in his own words “If I fight on in my campaign, all the way to the convention, I would forestall the launch of a national campaign and make it more likely that Senator Clinton or Obama would win. And in this time of war, I simply cannot let my campaign, be a part of aiding a surrender to terror."

Obviously we're seeing the start of the GOP fall campaign and the appearance of their strategy.

Regarding NCLB, the middle school teachers that I've talked to have all said how it has resulted in the teaching of science being eliminated/severely reduced at their schools in favor of a sole emphasis on reading and math. Not that reading and math are bad, mind you.

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