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tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 07, 2007 09:37PM Reply Quote
Talk about industry stock market mumbo-jumbo here.

John Willoughby – February 08, 2012 11:00AM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius
Was does Apple do when Foxconn asks for higher rates to improve the workers' situations, Apple pays the rates, and then the workers' situations do not improve substantially? They have to work through Foxconn management. Can they abruptly shift production of iPhones and iPads to another supplier and achieve better results? It's true that Apple's manufacturers desperately want Apple's money, but they work in a culture with no tradition of worker rights. They will nod gravely to Apple, build a break room for their workers, pocket the balance of Apple's increased investment and move on with business as usual.

I wish Apple would bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, but the reasons Steve gave Obama as to why they would never return are still valid. Still, I'd like the option to pay 20% more for an Apple product manufactured in the US. A pity that there aren't too many more who would.

YDD – February 08, 2012 11:33AM Reply Quote
Quote

think different
Doublethink Different?

James DeBenedetti – February 08, 2012 02:39PM Reply Quote
Quote
John Willoughby
Was does Apple do when Foxconn asks for higher rates to improve the workers' situations, Apple pays the rates, and then the workers' situations do not improve substantially? They have to work through Foxconn management. Can they abruptly shift production of iPhones and iPads to another supplier and achieve better results? It's true that Apple's manufacturers desperately want Apple's money, but they work in a culture with no tradition of worker rights. They will nod gravely to Apple, build a break room for their workers, pocket the balance of Apple's increased investment and move on with business as usual.

I wish Apple would bring manufacturing jobs back to the US, but the reasons Steve gave Obama as to why they would never return are still valid. Still, I'd like the option to pay 20% more for an Apple product manufactured in the US. A pity that there aren't too many more who would.

Apple should do the same thing with Foxconn that it did with CompUSA, Circuit City, Best Buy, etc. when they claimed they would improve the Mac shopping experience, but failed to do so.

The reason Steve gave as to why manufacturing jobs will never return to America is that (unlike China) we actually enforce our labor laws. This is an indictment of Steve and Apple's executive team, not our country or its manufacturing sector. That's why this is such a problem for Apple - it's hard to fix a problem when you view it as a competitive advantage rather than a ethical failure:

Quote
New York Times
Apple executives say that going overseas, at this point, is their only option. One former executive described how the company relied upon a Chinese factory to revamp iPhone manufacturing just weeks before the device was due on shelves. Apple had redesigned the iPhone’s screen at the last minute, forcing an assembly line overhaul. New screens began arriving at the plant near midnight.

A foreman immediately roused 8,000 workers inside the company’s dormitories, according to the executive. Each employee was given a biscuit and a cup of tea, guided to a workstation and within half an hour started a 12-hour shift fitting glass screens into beveled frames. Within 96 hours, the plant was producing over 10,000 iPhones a day.

The industry even admits that it wouldn't actually cost more to manufacture their products in America:

Quote
New York Times
In part, Asia was attractive because the semiskilled workers there were cheaper. But that wasn’t driving Apple. For technology companies, the cost of labor is minimal compared with the expense of buying parts and managing supply chains that bring together components and services from hundreds of companies.

Instead, they make up some BS about supply chains, hoping we'll ignore the fact that many of Apple's key components, like glass (Kentucky) and A4/A5/etc. chips (Texas) are manufactured here in America.

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – February 08, 2012 03:11PM Reply Quote
I think it's more than just a case of "cheaper" workers. It's what business lobby groups euphemistically call "workplace flexibility".

If Apple suddenly decides they want to double the amount of iPads/iPhones etc etc for some strategic reason (eg new product launch) with a chinese plant they just put the workers on double shifts etc etc. If you try that in the US it would either be bogged down with industrial action/labour disputes or the overtime penalty rates would be cost prohibitive.

Not saying it's nice, that's just the way things are.

Apple has been trying to debunk the notion that "Apple = Expensive" and also to minimise product launches that arrive on February 73rd™. If Apple moves all its manufacturing back to the US/Europe expect a big increase in both of those problems again.

That said, I'd be all for Apple moving out of China etc - but only if all their competitors do likewise.

tliet – February 08, 2012 09:19PM Reply Quote
Actually, it would be really thinking different if Apple were to move manufacturing to the west again. But I tend to agree with James' assessment, it's seen as an advantage that the workers are basically voiceless. Yes, they line up to work at a sweatshop, but what is the alternative? Probably even worse.

On the other hand; it's probably also true that most of the component suppliers are based in Asia, making it a crucial argument in the 'time to market' story which became all too important when Apple decided to ship every device they are selling directly from factory to customers by airfreight.



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 09:19PM by tliet.

bahamut – February 09, 2012 05:55AM Reply Quote
deB is right.

what if Apple thought different and moved its factories to detroit? just saying… (it might actually hurt because it's probably good to be in china for the chinese market… BUT…)

Also, greenpeace gave google a pass, apple and facebook a fail. wouldn't you rather have it be a pass?


Stock way up again today. I've done v. well indeed during the last year. Imagine many of you have too.


$10,000 in $5.50 (eq adj for split) Apple shares in 1996 is equal to $880,000+ today.

Anybody here been in the running for that long?

bahamut – February 13, 2012 04:30AM Reply Quote




Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/13/2012 04:30AM by bahamut.

bahamut – February 13, 2012 04:31AM Reply Quote
umm, never mind, looks like it's overcome the resistance at 500 handily…

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – February 13, 2012 08:35PM Reply Quote
What is that now from 96-97, a ninety-bagger?

They're already predicting 600.

tliet – February 15, 2012 08:15PM Reply Quote
A complete inversion of 15 years ago: the S&P500 analysed without Apple as it clouds the figures so much; http://finance.yahoo.com/news/apple-s-size-clouds-market.html

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – February 16, 2012 02:32PM Reply Quote
Thanks for that, tliet. Very illuminating

bahamut – March 14, 2012 05:19AM Reply Quote
Good God, there's no end to this. It opened up 15 today. I've made $5,000 this week. I guess even if it falls somewhat, I'll have had a big upside and every day it goes up, it's further from where I purchased it.

But man, its hard not to see this stock taking a tumble. Then again, it'd be hard to say I could've made $5,000 this week. In for the long haul!

Jeff Cooper – March 14, 2012 10:05AM Reply Quote
It can't keep going like this. But then, I've been saying that for awhile now.

El Jeffe – March 14, 2012 01:06PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
(that's what SHE said)

bahamut – March 15, 2012 04:53AM Reply Quote
apple opened at 600, still up at 596.

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – March 15, 2012 03:37PM Reply Quote
That makes it a hundred-bagger...



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 03/15/2012 03:38PM by Tony Leggett.

El Jeffe – March 18, 2012 05:12PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
What is apple doing with its cash reserves? Conference call??? Hmmm..

bahamut – March 18, 2012 07:01PM Reply Quote
Here comes a dividend.

As far a s the retreat... You can imagine how many folks used 600 as a Sell Limit. That Hassan effect.

bahamut – March 18, 2012 07:01PM Reply Quote
Oh, iPad...

El Jeffe – March 19, 2012 12:44AM Reply Quote
What a journey.
It would be nice for them to announce some new American production facilities, or somewhere else with a bit more worker protection?

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