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AAPL.O

tomierna's Avatar Picture tomierna (Admin) – December 07, 2007 09:37PM Reply Quote
Talk about industry stock market mumbo-jumbo here.

John Willoughby – January 17, 2012 12:12PM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius
Jerry Yang resigns from all positions at Yahoo, effective immediately.

Sooner or later, somebody had to walk the plank. I wonder if this was to clear the way for a buyout.

John Willoughby – January 24, 2012 11:54AM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius
Apple stock up 35 points (8%) after hours, on superb earnings.

bahamut – January 25, 2012 02:38PM Reply Quote
Held at 6.24%. Yummy. I made a lot of cash today as some of you did as well… 

El Jeffe – January 25, 2012 03:08PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
nope.

John Willoughby – January 25, 2012 08:37PM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius
I did all right. Wish I owned more, of course, as I do every time the stock goes up.

bahamut – January 29, 2012 05:27PM Reply Quote
And I suppose some of you did better than me. I blew it when I panicked under a margin call in spring 2001. Wish I still had THOSE shares.

Issues for aapl in the future:

1. FOXCONN. This can't go on forever. 60 hour work weeks? C'mon. We can do better than that. It's unseemly. Apple needs to deal with it or face rising unrest. Mark my words. Don't deal with Foxconn and the brand will be tarnished. End of argument.

2. LION. The first major step backward in Mac OS X. Lots and lots of UI trouble. Weird bugs. Mountain Lion may take care of these, but why did Apple does Apple have to release an OS to clean up its previous OS catastrophe twice in a row?

3. iOS is not a panacea. Steve had it right when he understood that the iPod's days were numbered.

4. Siri is barely functional. If that's that solution for an AppleTV, I'm heading for the hills.

5. iCloud. Meet the new Me, same as the old Me. Just what makes this clusterfuck better than itools?

Possible responses… 

1. Apple has the money to clean it up.

2. Not sure here. Mac OS needs a firm hand. I volunteer to do it, for the appropriate salary, of course. Barring that, a dominatrix.

3. Android is still worse and Google is flailing.

4. Maybe AppleTV is just fanboy wheezing.

5. They can always try again.

Jeff Cooper – January 29, 2012 07:19PM Reply Quote
Absolutely right on #1. I feel mild shame when I look at my Apple products and the thought of how they came into being flits through my mind.

tliet – January 30, 2012 08:57AM Reply Quote
#1 should be top priority, totally agree. How to fix things? I dunno, it's China after all. Plenty of people who want to work for less.

johnny k – January 30, 2012 11:29AM Reply Quote
60 hour work weeks? I think you're off. That's less than I work. I think it's more like 80 there.

It's a weird situation. It's easy to get defensive about Apple since they're probably the most progressive out of the many companies using Chinese manufacturing. You can argue that they are doing something to move the needle. But of course, is it enough? How do you weigh the reality - lower suicide rates than in the US, Western money has brought many rural people out of poverty - against the promise of perfect equality? Some of it smacks of first-world problems to me. Do Chinese workers not have a choice to work or quit? They are clamoring for these jobs. I feel that I'm at a disadvantage because I've only experienced unions as another political dinosaur (and being from a right-to-work state, a distant one) - not as the necessary force they were.

It sounds bad to say it, but the right thing to do for workers is not always obvious. What's the goal? If it's to give Chinese workers the same rights as American workers, jobs will move again and if that happens before China finds a new source of GDP, its workers will be fucked. Or it will further hurt export of goods by American companies as they'll have a "fair-labor" tax built in. How are Brazilian wages?

You want Apple to make beautiful, ground-breaking technology AND raise millions out of poverty? Cynically, the real problem is not something that even Apple can address. So for them it's just a PR problem. I'd say that they would raise awareness of what they're already doing with the FLA, etc. with an ad campaign, but that may only draw unwanted attention to the fact that they're outsourcing mfg.

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – January 30, 2012 02:15PM Reply Quote
I'm curious why the focus has been so much on Apple, lots of other companies outsource to China under the exact same conditions (I assume, at any rate).

Not that the "everyone else is doing it" excuse makes it right but things should be put in perspective.

porruka (Admin) – January 30, 2012 02:23PM Reply Quote
Tony, probably because there's so much attention on Apple in general right now.

And jk, thanks for saying this well; I hadn't had a chance to get to it. I'm by no means an apologist for offshoring or for working conditions that are "officially" denied, and even the admitted conditions are unattractive by our standards, but...

...there are also cultural differences that we must consider, there are economic realities in other countries (not just China) that we must accept, and we as a *worldwide collection of humans* have quite a ways to go before we have a universally accepted, understood, and adhered to code of working conduct.

That doesn't mean there aren't ways to improve things where they are objectively bad, but when "poor conditions" becomes more subjective, the situation becomes far more challenging.

El Jeffe – January 30, 2012 03:27PM Reply Quote
What a journey.
Apple's large margins and alps-high pile-o-cash.
Big target for greedy types. Regardless of whether their arguments have merit or not.

James DeBenedetti – January 30, 2012 04:42PM Reply Quote
Sigh, there's absolutely no reason for Apple to put up with this. They dumped IBM/Motorola, they're dumping Intel, and they could dump Foxconn, etc., if they actually cared more about people than profits. I agree with Baha that this is Apple's (greatest?) problem. The fact that their $500 million CEO put the system in place means it won't be changing anytime soon.

Quote

More troubling, the groups say, is some suppliers’ disregard for workers’ health. Two years ago, 137 workers at an Apple supplier in eastern China were injured after they were ordered to use a poisonous chemical to clean iPhone screens. Within seven months last year, two explosions at iPad factories, including in Chengdu, killed four people and injured 77. Before those blasts, Apple had been alerted to hazardous conditions inside the Chengdu plant, according to a Chinese group that published that warning…

But significant problems remain. More than half of the suppliers audited by Apple have violated at least one aspect of the code of conduct every year since 2007, according to Apple’s reports, and in some instances have violated the law. While many violations involve working conditions, rather than safety hazards, troubling patterns persist...

“We’ve known about labor abuses in some factories for four years, and they’re still going on,” said one former Apple executive who, like others, spoke on the condition of anonymity because of confidentiality agreements. “Why? Because the system works for us. Suppliers would change everything tomorrow if Apple told them they didn’t have another choice.”

“If half of iPhones were malfunctioning, do you think Apple would let it go on for four years?” the executive asked...

“You can set all the rules you want, but they’re meaningless if you don’t give suppliers enough profit to treat workers well,” said one former Apple executive with firsthand knowledge of the supplier responsibility group. “If you squeeze margins, you’re forcing them to cut safety.”…

Many major technology companies have worked with factories where conditions are troubling. However, independent monitors and suppliers say some act differently. Executives at multiple suppliers, in interviews, said that Hewlett-Packard and others allowed them slightly more profits and other allowances if they were used to improve worker conditions…

Just two weeks before the explosion, an advocacy group in Hong Kong published a report warning of unsafe conditions at the Chengdu plant, including problems with aluminum dust. The group, Students and Scholars Against Corporate Misbehavior, or Sacom, had videotaped workers covered with tiny aluminum particles. “Occupational health and safety issues in Chengdu are alarming,” the report read. “Workers also highlight the problem of poor ventilation and inadequate personal protective equipment.”

A copy of that report was sent to Apple. “There was no response,” said Debby Chan Sze Wan of the group. “A few months later I went to Cupertino, and went into the Apple lobby, but no one would meet with me. I’ve never heard from anyone from Apple at all.”

Cloudscout – January 31, 2012 06:49AM Reply Quote
˙pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ʎɯ ɥʇıʍ ƃuoɹʍ ƃuıɥʇǝɯos sı ǝɹǝɥʇ ʞuıɥʇ ı ?ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ʎɯ ɥʇıʍ ǝɯ dlǝɥ ǝuoǝɯos uɐɔ
In the meantime, Apple's market cap is now 6% higher than ExxonMobile.

John Willoughby – January 31, 2012 07:59AM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius
Thousands line up for new iPhone production jobs at Foxconn. New story, not re-posting of old events.

Cloudscout – February 06, 2012 09:29AM Reply Quote
˙pɹɐoqʎǝʞ ʎɯ ɥʇıʍ ƃuoɹʍ ƃuıɥʇǝɯos sı ǝɹǝɥʇ ʞuıɥʇ ı ?ɹǝʇndɯoɔ ʎɯ ɥʇıʍ ǝɯ dlǝɥ ǝuoǝɯos uɐɔ
Apple's market cap has doubled in the last two years. Can they keep up that momentum? Could we be looking at a trillion dollar company in 2014?

John Willoughby – February 07, 2012 09:15AM Reply Quote
Homo Sapiens Sedentarius

bahamut – February 07, 2012 05:35PM Reply Quote
Why is Apple having all this attention?

Two more reasons.

Think about the modernist design that Steve Jobs loved so much. Morality was a big part of it. Modernism was a full system, from factory to worker to product. That may have been the theory, but that was the goal. Most people may not be thinking of it, but it's latent.

Similarly, modernism aside, Apple's design implies that everything is thought through, that the company thinks about people. It's not sloppy. So why sloppy here?

Tony Leggett (Moderator) – February 08, 2012 12:20AM Reply Quote
Quote

Similarly, modernism aside, Apple's design implies that everything is thought through, that the company thinks about people. It's not sloppy. So why sloppy here?

Good observation...

James DeBenedetti – February 08, 2012 09:45AM Reply Quote
Two more reasons:

1. As the most profitable company in the world, Apple can afford to be more generous than its competition.

2. Apple routinely reinvents entire industries that it finds "broken" (music, retail, mobile phones, etc.). By closing all its US and European factories to move production where labor laws are routinely ignored, and then whitewashing the resulting abuses instead of fixing them, Apple is making things worse, not better. It's promoting an ethical Gresham's dynamic in its own industry. Major cognitive dissonance there for anyone (customers, regulators, media, etc.) who support Apple because they "think different".



Edited 1 time(s). Last edit at 02/08/2012 09:48AM by James DeBenedetti.

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